This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


426 still missing after an inframe overhaul

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Commonwealth81 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Location: Ky
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Commonwealth81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 426 still missing after an inframe overhaul
    Posted: 29 Aug 2017 at 7:44pm
First post here but I figured some of you guys would be more familiar with this motor.
I drug an 8030 out of a barn that has been sitting since 2004 and don't have any idea of how it was running when it was parked. I decided to do the overhaul because it only had 50psi of compression on #1 and #3.. so, after I tore it down I found lots of broken rings. Went ahead and had injectors tested and a valve job done on the head also. I got it all back together today and fired it up but it's running very rough and seems that #1 is hardly doing anything. So, I swapped #1 and #6 injector and the miss stayed on #1.. I then did a compression test on #1 and #6 and they both were at 200 psi.. I'm thinking I got pump problems but it seems odd that a rotary pump would pick just one cylinder to act up on? Maybe because it sit so long in that spot that something rusted around that port in pump? I also checked the timing and it is only set at 10 degrees which is way low but I don't think it would cause it too run rough? Has anyone seen a ambac pump act like this?
Sorry for the long post. Thanks
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Orange Blood View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Location: ColoradoSprings
Points: 4053
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange Blood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2017 at 9:36pm
I agree get your pump R&R'd

Look up Injection Pump ED
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
Back to Top
injpumpEd View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 5080
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2017 at 7:37am
A miss on one cylinder is probably not the pump, unless something in the hyd head is eroded away. Very unlikely. 200 psi is not nearly enough for a diesel. Should be at least 300, but 350 is better. Comp test another good cylinder. Maybe your gauge is just not accurate. You want to check the pump, take the injector out, turn the injection line away from the engine, or get a spare line, and put the injector on the line, and see if it will pop the injector while hanging on the inj line. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
Back to Top
Commonwealth81 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Location: Ky
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Commonwealth81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2017 at 8:57am
Ok, thanks I may and see if I can rig something up to watch it spray. It probably has more than 200 because my tester has a flat bottom and the injector hole in the head is beveled. I could see and hear a lot blowing out around it on the test but I figured 200 was enough to fire the hole.
Back to Top
Commonwealth81 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Location: Ky
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Commonwealth81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2017 at 9:24am
I did set the valve lash at .15.... with engine hot, those are the specs that came with my overhaul kit. Does that sound right?
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21583
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2017 at 12:05pm
Much easier to do .017" COLD and throw the valve cover on and be done with it.
Back to Top
JC-WI View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
Points: 34278
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2017 at 12:32pm
Ciould it be a cam lobe wiped?
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
Back to Top
LeonR2013 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Location: Fulton, Mo
Points: 3500
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2017 at 3:19pm
Naw, that would mess with his comp. some. Loosen the line at the inj. and spin her over real good. I know, it'll make a mess so pick a good spot to do it. I think you ought to check the pump pressure. You know, it could be the cam. Is it a dead miss, or just sorta loapy? I'd pull that line and see if you can get air thru. it too.
Back to Top
bigal121892 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Location: Nebraska
Points: 809
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigal121892 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2017 at 8:49pm
This is kind of a long shot, and doesn't completely fit the symptoms, but I have had problems with the 426 engines, cracking exhaust valves, after having a head done. Whenever I had a head worked on, we always had the exhaust valves replaced.
Back to Top
Peterson View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Location: Westboro, Wi
Points: 864
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2017 at 10:04pm
Prolly not what's wrong with it, but did you put the injectors I the right way? Return line is towards the valve cover.
7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
Back to Top
bill2260 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Points: 215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bill2260 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2017 at 10:15am
Make sure you put washers on bolts that hold injectors in place. After a neighbor overhauled my 185 he left washers off one cylinder and it would miss. He figured out the problem. Put washers on drawled up tight and it worked fine. Bill
Back to Top
Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2017 at 5:44pm
A cylinder leakage test would tell for sure where it's going. I don't know for sure what a 426 should be for compression, but Duramax and Powerstroke won't fire at 300 psi. A good one in that case will be right at 400 psi. What are the known good cylinders reading for compression?
Couldn't hurt to compare the rocker arm movement or even put a dial indicator on each arm and bar it over.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
Back to Top
LeonR2013 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Location: Fulton, Mo
Points: 3500
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2017 at 7:05pm
That would let you know if the cam is going flat.
Back to Top
Commonwealth81 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Location: Ky
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Commonwealth81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2017 at 8:15pm
Just figured I would update since I am getting replies. It doesn't make sense to me but I set the pump Timing up to 20 degeees and it cleared up and runs smooth with no smoke. I am happy as hell but doesn't make sense. Maybe #1 was hitting better than what I thought and it was a little miss from all cylinders. It was set at 10 degrees when I checked it. I was sure that it wasn't going to fix it but I wanted to set it correctly just to see.
Back to Top
injpumpEd View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 5080
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2017 at 7:34am
being off time is a huge deal to a diesel. Spec is 19*, and I'd rather see one timed slightly advanced in stead of retarded. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
Back to Top
tornado8070 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Location: MI
Points: 1341
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tornado8070 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2017 at 9:26am
I have seen one set at 14 degrees and it sounded like . 19-20 and it purrs lik a kitten!
09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift.
Back to Top
Kevin in WA View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Location: Lynden, WA
Points: 612
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kevin in WA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2017 at 10:27am
Your headgasket will live better if it is timed at 18    That being said the intravance has to be working correctly for it to burn clean, a lot of times a worn pump wont advance correctly and will make it smoke and run hot and sound like crap. When it comes down to it these AMBAC 100 pumps are a POS. I have 2 8070s one with an AMBAC and one with an A series inlne on it, both set to about 180 HP and there is no comparison between the two tractors when it comes to governor response. The AMBAC has to have a 2-300 rpm droop to get full fuel, the inline only needs about 50. And the inline will probably run for 10,000 hrs vs 3000 hrs from an AMBAC.
Back to Top
LeonR2013 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Location: Fulton, Mo
Points: 3500
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2017 at 7:53pm
How bout that. Thanks for letting us know.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum