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HVFDFIREFIGHTER 
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Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Location: Heuvelton, NY
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 Topic: Help with a RED tractor
Posted: 20 May 2017 at 7:07pm |
Have the chance to get a Farmall Super A. I know this is the wrong website for red tractors. Went and looked at it today. Took carb apart and cleaned. Took sediment bowl off and cleaned. Drained tank. Put in fresh gas. Gas is flowing to carb. (looks like the same type as my D14m a Marvel Schreiber). Has alternator on left side of tractor connected to fan (one like what you would see in a truck or a car). On the right side by the distributor is a black solenoid (I think that is what it is called) that is labeled 6 volt connected to two wires. So I am assuming this is a 6 volt setup. I put my 6 volt battery on (which has no problem starting my WD, plus I charged the battery over night). It would barely even turn the tractor over. Took a 12 volt battery out of the lawn mower that was sitting there. It turned the tractor over pretty good but it did not even attempt to start. Tried to take spark plugs out in order to dump some gas in each cylinder. Did not have the right size plug wrench so I couldn't get them out for now. (an hour away from home, and I never have enough or the right tools with me).
On the operator's planel of the tractor is a switch (push in to stop, pull out to run). It didn't move very well so I took the two wires off of the back cleaned them and connected the wires directly together (bypassing the switch).
There is also a round knob that turns from the Letters C, D, and B. I have know clue what this is, I am guessing C for charge, B for battery D? It has wires running to the alternator and maybe meter, I cant remember). Any help on this?
There are a lot of wires with missing insulation. Tractor is negative ground (I am pretty sure) I can get tractor to turn over, but not start with negative ground. When I switched to positive ground, I got all kinds of sparks at the battery terminals so I switched back to negative ground. If I have negative battery post to ground and positive battery post directly to starter, what other essential wire(s) do I need? (another words, I am trying to bypass the entire existing wiring and get tractor to at least fire, hopefully even run).
The tractor has sat in a shed since last used. It was running in good shape when placed in there 15 years or so years ago. When turning over with battery, the hydraulics were actually moving. I lowered them, Pushed in the clutch and am holding it in with a block of wood figuring that if the clutch is in, there is less to turn, making it easier start.
Again, sorry for posting a "RED" question on an "ORANGE" site. You guys have been very helpful in getting MY WD and my D14 going. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
Edited by HVFDFIREFIGHTER - 20 May 2017 at 7:07pm
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 20 May 2017 at 7:36pm |
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You want to make sure the wire going from the distributor to the coil is going to the negative post of the coil if the tractor is negative ground.
Other thing is make sure the points are good and set right. The gap when opened is 20 thousands.
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Dave(inMA)
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Posted: 20 May 2017 at 8:01pm |
I believe the wire from the "D" terminal goes to the positive terminal on the coil; there should be a wire from the neg terminal on the coil to the distributor.
Have you checked for 6 volt power at the coil terminals? If no power there, it won't fire. I'd also clean and gap the points as noted above. Have you pulled a spark plug and grounded it while turning the engine over to see if you are getting a spark?
If your battery is struggling to turn the engine over, there may not be enough juice left to provide a spark.....I'd want to know why the engine isn't turning over better before going too much further!
Good luck..... Dave
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 20 May 2017 at 9:30pm |
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I have not taken spark plugs out yet. I did not have the right size wrench. I did not have a volt meter with me either.
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JW in MO
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Posted: 20 May 2017 at 9:48pm |
With an alternator the tractor is 12v, neg. ground. Take the distributor cap off, Remove the rotor and shield, (if installed) to expose the points. Pull the coil wire out of the distributor cap but leave the other end firmly in the coil, Pull out the ignition switch, (or jumper the wires together again), Hold the end of the coil wir approximately 1/4" away from any bare metal tractor part. With your other hand seperate the points and watch for spark from the coil wire to the metal. (should spark every time you seperate the points) If you have spark first check the contacts on the under side of the distributor cap and rotor. Next check would be plugs and plug wires. If no spark, first try filing the points If still no spark you will definately need a volt/ohm meter to check the system.
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shameless dude
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Posted: 20 May 2017 at 9:55pm |
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sounds like someone was in the process of changing it over to 12v, may not have got it all done?
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 21 May 2017 at 6:16am |
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To check the coil, just put my volt meter on the two wires of the coil?
Edited by HVFDFIREFIGHTER - 21 May 2017 at 6:21am
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B26240
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Posted: 21 May 2017 at 6:25am |
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With wiring as you discribed and sitting that long I would disconect ALL existing wires and use temperary wire to the coil till you get it running. If you buy the tractor the first thing I would do after getting it home would be to replace all the wires. As Sameful said priveous owner may have been in the process of 12 volt conversion.
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JW in MO
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Posted: 21 May 2017 at 6:40am |
A super A should not have a solenoid and besides, you said that the motor was turning over when connected to an alternate source, if that's true, even if you had a solenoid, it's not the problem. If everything is as you have described earlier, your problem is either lack of fuel or spark.
I just checked this post and somehow the word solenoid has a link attached to it that I did NOT embed, DO NOT CLICK ON IT!!
Edited by JW in MO - 21 May 2017 at 7:24am
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 21 May 2017 at 11:03am |
So how would I bypass all existing wires. Negative battery post to ground (metal part of tractor), positive battery post to starter. What do I run to coil? Coil has two wires, one goes out coil and into distributor. The other I cant remember where it goes.
Edited by HVFDFIREFIGHTER - 21 May 2017 at 11:06am
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Richardmo
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Posted: 21 May 2017 at 11:53am |
Jump a wire from the positive side of the battery to the other terminal side of the coil on the left in your picture. Next thing to do is to take off the disturber cap. Turn the tractor over you should see the points should have spark. The points will need to be cleaned if has been sitting that long in my opinion.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 21 May 2017 at 8:34pm |
 HVFDFIREFIGHTER wrote:
When I switched to positive ground, I got all kinds of sparks at the battery terminals so I switched back to negative ground. If I have negative battery post to ground and positive battery post directly to starter, what other essential wire(s) do I need? (another words, I am trying to bypass the entire existing wiring and get tractor to at least fire, hopefully even run).
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When you switched polarity to Pos ground, the sparks probably let the smoke out of the alternator. With the Pos to the starer and the neg to a good ground, the only other wire you need is from the pos side of the battery to the pos side of the coil. Neg side of coil goes to the distibutor. That is all the wires you need other than the plug wires.
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 21 May 2017 at 9:20pm |
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Just unhook all your wires. Get two alligator clips and a piece of electrical wire and put the clips on it. Clip one end on the batt. cable anywhere and the other end on the coil opposite from the dist. wire. Keep it simple and forget about all the other wires until it runs because your're just trying to see how it sounds, right? Oh, you will have to leave the batt. cables hooked up.
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 21 May 2017 at 9:44pm |
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On your coil you should see the two small studs. One on each side of the plug wire. Run a positive wire from the battery to the positive stud on the coil. From the negative stud run a wire to the distributor. Make sure you make the connection at the battery so you can easily disconnect it in case things go bad.
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:21pm |
Richardmo wrote:
Jump a wire from the positive side of the battery to the other terminal side of the coil on the left in your picture. |
So I should do the following to bypass existing wiring: use 12 volt battery with negative battery post to ground (bare metal on tractor) positive battery post to 1 heavier gauge wire (6 or 4) to starter and 1 wire (12-10 gauge) to left side of coil above distributor while the right side of coil goes to side of distributor (as pictured above).
The above setup will give me everything I need to get a complete circuit to start the tractor?
I will also do the following: 1) I will check the points, make sure they close and open to 0.040. 2) I will check spark plug wires for spark. 7/8" socket 2) I will pull plugs, clean plugs (or replace), dump a little gas in each cylinder. 3) Maybe dump a little mystery oil in each cylinder if I think compression is a problem.
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:24pm |
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Anyone know the firing order for the spark plugs? Is it 1,2,4,3?
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:32pm |
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Yes, I am just trying to see if it will start. I will clean it all up and replace all wires (and replace alternator, because I most likely fried it) later. It would be nice to get it started to assist in moving out of barn and on to trailer. I have a good strong winch but a moving tractor would be beneficial. It has oil and a full radiator. One front tire completely shot. Didn't have a jack or a wrench (I'm guessing 7/8) to take off and bring home and replace. I did give all four lugs a pretty good shot of PB Blaster.
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Leon n/c AR.
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:42pm |
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I would guess the ignition points need about .020 and plugs about .035. 1,2,4,3 sounds right for firing order. Leon
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:50pm |
After a little research, it sounds like the Super A fires 1,3,4,2 1 being the closest to the radiator, 4 being closest to the tractor seat.
Distributor cap: 2 o'clock is #1, 4 o'clock is #3 6 o'clock is #4 8 o'clock is #2 center goes to coil
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 23 May 2017 at 5:41am |
HVFDFIREFIGHTER wrote:
[QUOTE=Richardmo]2) I will dump a little gas in each cylinder. |
All that will do is wash the oil off the cylinder walls and rings. A couple drops of oil would be better as long as it doesn't foul your clean plugs.
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 1:24pm |
Finally got back up there. Used a new 7/8 socket that was 1.17 on the outside. That was able to squeeze in and remove the spark plugs. Put new plugs in. Here, you can see the results.
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 2:38pm |
You need to clean the points, a dollar bill will work.
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 10:05am |
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 10:12am |
Does this sound right? Sounds like runs the stops, runs then stops. Do you think all four plugs are getting juice? I know the wire closest to the seat does! Found out the hard way. Took it off while tractor was running and Iwhile I was holding the battery wire (didn't have the right connection), it DEFINETLY has some juice in it!! OUCH!
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 1:59pm |
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Sounds more like carb out of adjustment.Sounds too rich.Choke all way off?
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER
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Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 7:24am |
Not sure. It is about 2 hours away from home. Just went to look at it and got it running.
In hindsight, I should have paid for it first before turning a nonrunning tractor into a running one!. Owners still honoring the original price though! Yea!
I just wanted to get it running to get it on the trailer to save a lot of work! When I get a chance, I will go pick it up. Give it a good tune up, get it running really good then tear it all apart and refurb. |
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cdon_FL
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Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 8:10am |
Nice find. If I had an IH, if would be a Super A. But getting it running before you hand over the cash you offered ??? Not sporting, IMO.
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Chris in NE Florida
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