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mikeks 
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 Topic: D17 Failure
Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 5:19am |
First post. Been reading a lot of great info here for a while. Hopefully you can solve this one. I believe the tractor is a 1962 D17 series II. Son was using it to hay cows, killed it, couldn't get it to start again. After many hours of troubleshooting the electrical I realized the rotor was not turning. Working my way through, the valves are also not moving either. I thought timing chain, simple enough. I know nothing about tractors, and just enough about cars to get me in trouble. After a little research I realize it is all gear driven. So the question is, what broke? Can I tackle this, or does it need to go to a shop? Engine cranks Pistons move rotor does not turn valves do not move.
Any ideas on where to get an online manual for this?
Thanks in advance for the help.
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DougS
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 5:46am |
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Rotor? Do you mean camshaft or do you mean the distributor rotor? If neither is turning I'd say you need to take the front cover off and look from there.
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mikeks
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 6:09am |
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The shaft inside the distributor that turned the rotor is not turning. Also with the valves not moving I would assume that the camshaft is not turning as well. The only thing I know is turning is the crankshaft.
I can't seem to find any diagrams of how this engine is assembled. The way I see it is the crankshaft turns the camshaft which turns a hydraulic pump which has a shaft that drives the distributor is this correct?
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Dans 7080
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 6:09am |
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I would say the crank gear or cam gear stripped. The cam drives the distributor.
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Dan73
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 6:16am |
https://www.agcopubs.comThat is where you want to go to get the service manual. http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/login.aspxThis is where you will fine the parts manual I agree with the comment of pulling the front cover.
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Allis dave
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 6:40am |
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 7:14am |
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THE DISTRIBUTOR DRIVE GEARS HAVE FAILED FROM LACK OF OIL !! LIFT DISTRIBUTOR OUT OF ITS SOCKET AND YOU'LL SEE THE PROBLEM.
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Stan IL&TN
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 7:17am |
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If while you are turning it over you see the front crankshaft pulley turning then that's a good thing as the crank is not broken. As Dan said above it's likely that one or both timing gears are stripped.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 8:15am |
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Well, if you've ever changed a set of spark plugs you can probably do this. With the book you can learn what you need to do. Who knows it might be the beginning of an exciting new career. LOL There are a lot of vendors, and very knowledgeable mechanics who are willing to walk you through it, here on the site. Between the two, if you learn all you can before you start, you'll find it's not rocket science. Tools you might need you usually can rent from NAPA, O'Reilly's and when you bring them back you get your money back, so it really doesn't cost you anything. CHARGEEEE
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Dusty MI
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 10:15am |
I forget which engine but I've heard where the governor weights wear and fall off and into the cam and crank gears.
Dusty
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 11:22am |
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It probably had the governor weights come apart and go through the cam gears. It really does a number on them. I have a Gleaner E engine apart right now for that problem. You'll want to pull the engine and remove the oil pan to get all of the debris out of the engine. Governor weights, pins, and gears are all available new.
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Eldon (WA)
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 12:42pm |
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Wouldn't the pistons hit some valves if they stayed open since the cam was not turning? Could be bigger problems....
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 6:12pm |
How do you know the valves aren't moving? I assume you took the valve cover off? If you are looking through the fill tube, it may take a revolution to see any valve movement.
If the valves truly aren't moving, then you lost the crankshaft gear key, or some gear teeth on the camshaft gear.
The distributor/governor gear runs off the camshaft gear, and the camshaft gear runs off the crankshaft gear. If you lost the camshaft gear key, the distributor would still be turning, as the cam gear would still turn with the crank. It is possible the camshaft gear came completely off, but I would find that very hard to imagine.
My guess is when he killed the engine, the impulse loads from the last cylinder fire, may have sheared the crankshaft gear key way.
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
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mikeks
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Posted: 08 Mar 2017 at 10:44pm |
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Greatly appreciate everyone's help and input. Got the front end separated and everything peeled off but was unable to remove the pulley off of the crank shaft. Soaked it down and called it a night. Will post more when I know more. Thanks agin!
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 4:23am |
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Hang right in there. You'll get'er done.
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Stan IL&TN
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 6:57am |
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I believe that pulley may have two set screws, one on top of a second.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 7:43am |
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One big setscrew on a D-17 gas.
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mikeks
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 7:51am |
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No Allen set screws then? I couldn't find any anywhere.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 12:27pm |
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One big pointed bolt with a jam nut on it. NO ALLEN HEAD SCREWS.
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mikeks
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 1:19pm |
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Awesome, thank you! Know any good removal secrets? Or by chance what size of bearing splitter will fit behind it?
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Allis dave
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 1:45pm |
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I've pulled the pulley of my WD45 crank with a 3 jaw gear puller. Probably not the best because you could bend the pulley.
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mikeks
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 7:59pm |
Found the problem, or at least the start. Camshaft gear has 3 spots with the teeth chewed off. Other gears appear fine. I have pictures, but no clue how to post them. What other problems should I look for? Any chance of the valves hitting the pistons like OrangeBlood mentioned? Any suggestions on where to find the gear and all the needed gaskets?
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mikeks
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 8:10pm |
Also any suggestions on making sure I get the correct timing gear and gasket. How do I verify series, engine and all that? 17 41087 is stamped on the torque tube.
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Dan73
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 8:12pm |
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Call sandy lake on the supplier page they can get you everything you need. Alot of other vendors there can as well.
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Lynn Marshall
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Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 8:53pm |
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You have a bit of a mess here. Getting the cam gear off may not be that difficult,but getting one back on without damaging something else won't be easy. If I was doing it,I would remove the engine and clutch. Set the engine on the flywheel standing up. Oil pan off,oil pump out,rocker arms and push rods out, then remove the cam. Either find a cam with the gear already on it or find a good used gear and press it on. Inspect the crank gear and especially the distributor gear and governor assembly. Rod bearings and main bearings should be looked at plus the clutch assembly and rear main seal should be replaced. Maybe even the clutch shaft seal also. New cam bushings and oil pump inspection should also be done. Good luck.
Edited by Lynn Marshall - 09 Mar 2017 at 9:16pm
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 10 Mar 2017 at 8:56am |
If you have teeth missing, you have metal that needs to be found. Like Lynn said, I think it would be easier to pull the motor, as far as you have the tractor apart at this point, it won't take much more work to pull the motor, and the time saved doing the work, will likely offset the time to pull.
Did your governor weights come apart?
Oh and by the way Eldon is the smart guy with the valves hitting question. I really have never looked into the valve cylinder interference on these engines, but my best memory would say they would not hit. Others may know for sure.
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Dan73
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Posted: 10 Mar 2017 at 9:01am |
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I think there is enough clearance that the valves won't hit. I had one stuck open in my d17 and it never hit but I don't remember now if it was fully open or just partly. That was about 6 years ago now. I just remembered part of the trouble with it was a stuck open exaust valve and the motor still turned over at the time.
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mikeks
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Posted: 10 Mar 2017 at 9:08am |
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I looked at the governor and didn't notice anything strange. But I also did not know what I was looking at. I am leaving town for a couple days for work, will check it out closer when I get home.
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Dan73
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Posted: 10 Mar 2017 at 9:11am |
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There are two weights on the governor. When they fail the hole on the back opens up and they fall off if one was missing you would have noticed.
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Eldon (WA)
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Posted: 10 Mar 2017 at 10:09am |
 Dan73 wrote:
I think there is enough clearance that the valves won't hit. I had one stuck open in my d17 and it never hit but I don't remember now if it was fully open or just partly. That was about 6 years ago now. I just remembered part of the trouble with it was a stuck open exaust valve and the motor still turned over at the time. |
I know they hit on a D14...
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