| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Austin IL 
Orange Level
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Location: Illinois
Points: 673
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: 301 into a 6000 series???
Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 8:25pm |
|
Wanting to know everyone thoughts, ideas, suggestions on putting a 301 into a 6070. It's a FWA cab tractor.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Eldon (WA)
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Points: 7765
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 8:35pm |
|
Just sell it and buy an 8010....less work and $$$$
|
|
ALLIS EXPRESS!
This year:
|
|
DSeries4
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7506
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 9:18pm |
|
You are definitely talking about doing major surgery there. As Eldon said, it would be cheaper to buy an 8010. What is wrong with the 433 engine? Nothing that can't be rebuilt. If the block is toast, there are lots of F2/F3 combines with these engines in them - should be easy to find.
Apparently AC was experimenting with this idea before they got bought out. There were doubts that the power train would hold up to the power of a 301.
|
|
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
|
|
JIMncMO
Bronze Level
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Points: 46
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 10:02pm |
If your motivation is to do it to see if it can be done, then by all means....But I think it would be quite an undertaking. Personally I always thought that the 301 in a 6080 would be a perfect combination. I always disliked how our 6080 was always under powered unless it was wound out. We also had a 200 and I always wished I could merge the two. As the previous comment said the 8010 would be a cheaper easier option, but not nearly as nimble as a loader tractor. My solution was a cummins re-power which had a an extra 15-20 hp and a bit more low end torque. If you decide to do the 301, I would love to hear about it.
|
|
Eldon (WA)
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Points: 7765
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 10:11pm |
|
6000 series downfall is no pd or ps...that is why I would go with the 8000 series.
|
|
ALLIS EXPRESS!
This year:
|
|
Daehler
Orange Level Access
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
Location: Lexington MO
Points: 1161
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 10:21pm |
|
I wouldn't do it to a 6070, they are already hard to get. I've had the same idea but I was going to find a 6080 out of a salvage yard to make a 6095. Lol. Anyway you look at it, it would be a major money pit.
|
|
8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
|
|
Austin IL
Orange Level
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Location: Illinois
Points: 673
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 10:39pm |
|
I agree with the 8010, but this 6070 is going to be my loader tractor. I can't imagine an 8010 being a good loader tractor with the shifter being used by the same hand as the joystick for the loader. Nothing wrong with the engine in the 6070. If I sold the engine and used that money to buy a good 301, what other big expense would I have?
|
|
Kevin in WA
Orange Level Access
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Location: Lynden, WA
Points: 612
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 10:57pm |
|
A 301 would destroy that Fiat drivetrain if you tried to put the power to the ground.
|
|
DSeries4
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7506
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 11:22pm |
 Austin IL wrote:
I agree with the 8010, but this 6070 is going to be my loader tractor. I can't imagine an 8010 being a good loader tractor with the shifter being used by the same hand as the joystick for the loader. Nothing wrong with the engine in the 6070. If I sold the engine and used that money to buy a good 301, what other big expense would I have? |
Stretching the frame, front drive shaft, machining and fabrication, making sheet metal changes... Why would you want to do all that work if you already have a good running engine? The 433 already has good power.
|
|
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
|
|
ILGLEANER
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Willow Hill,ILL
Points: 6448
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 12:27am |
Eldon (WA) wrote:
Just sell it and buy an 8010....less work and $$$$ |
Already got one
|
|
Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated.
|
|
Dgrader
Orange Level
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Newton,IL
Points: 1037
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 4:38am |
|
I'd say stay tuned in. We're gonna see if we can make the 301 work.
|
|
Ya cain't fix stupid.
|
|
Austin IL
Orange Level
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Location: Illinois
Points: 673
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 7:17am |
|
I was thinking set the pump somewhere between a 180 and a 190.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21927
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 8:13am |
|
You know, if this was a D-19 diesel you were trying to transplant a 301 into, I would understand. D-19 diesels were simply not a very good engine. Now, a 6070 ?? They have a pretty darn good engine to begin with. Changing to a 301 just for a loader tractor??? I guess for the $$$$ that is going to be spent, I'd be looking for something a little newer with a shuttle shift on the steering column that was actually designed to be a loader tractor. If you run a 6070 long enough, you'll figure out it doesn't have a 4 or 5 MPH reverse, making it not my first choice for a daily driver with a loader. And then, there's the smaller diameter dry type clutch.........
|
|
DanD
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: WI
Points: 856
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 8:50am |
|
Since you asked for thoughts, I'll give mine. Since your 6070 has a good engine and you're using this as a loader tractor, I can't fathom a reason to do this transplant. You have nothing to gain and could end up with a cobble job. If you really want to do it, find a 6080 with an engine that's already blown up or something. There's my opinion. It cost you nothing so I guess it's worthless!!!! LOL
|
|
DSeries4
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7506
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 10:09am |
Austin IL wrote:
I was thinking set the pump somewhere between a 180 and a 190. |
So, you are probably targeting somewhere between 60 and 75 PTO hp (dealing with a 190, not an XT)... Your stock 433 in a 6070 already puts out 70 hp (or so it should). The 433I in my 6080 already dynos over 100 on the pto (more than my 190 XT at the moment). Hence, no reason for a 301 in my opinion. I have to agree with the above comment as well. The reverse speeds are not good for a loader. Either way too slow or way too fast.
|
|
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
|
|
Austin IL
Orange Level
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Location: Illinois
Points: 673
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 4:08pm |
|
301 set at 90hp and a 433I set at 90hp would still be different similar to an M11 running 400hp and an 855 running 400 hp. We have three other 6000 series tractors, all with loaders and I can't think of any other Allis tractor that would be better than a 6000 series, to have a loader on. Run the joystick with the right hand, and the shifter with the left.
|
|
Austin IL
Orange Level
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Location: Illinois
Points: 673
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 4:12pm |
|
a little info..... tractor is paid for and if I sell the 433 and buy an 301, wouldn't I be ahead to start with? (money wise) I am completely fine with spending some money on this project. I just think a 301 turned down would last a long time. Not to mention a 6 cylinder engine would have more guts than a 4 cylinder. Am I right?
Thanks for the comments and keep them coming.
Edited by Austin IL - 03 Sep 2016 at 4:14pm
|
|
ILGLEANER
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Willow Hill,ILL
Points: 6448
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 5:20pm |
|
And we have a parts 6080 , we have extra 433s sitting in the shed. And l don't care what anyone says a 301 will pull a 433 thru it's asshole. No comparison between the 2 l don't care what any dyno says. We are just toying with putting a 301 in a 6000 series. We have an 8010 we have a 7010, we have 190s we have 200s. We have all the 6000 series, we have extra 6000 series parts tractors . Can you bolt a 301 to a 6080 bell housing is a simple question ?
Edited by ILGLEANER - 03 Sep 2016 at 5:21pm
|
|
Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated.
|
|
hillmonkey
Orange Level
Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Location: oville fl
Points: 417
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 6:08pm |
|
Flywheel might be the biggest challenge.
|
|
brouillettefarms
Silver Level
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Location: Vincennes
Points: 327
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 6:16pm |
|
I sold a guy a 433 to put in a D19, he used the plate from a 190 with a 301 so the 301 should bolt up to the 6070 plate. I looked at a 6080 I have apart in my shop and it looks like there is plenty of room between the crank pulley and the front axle bolster to accommodate the longer motor,move the radiator forward relocate the batteries and I think it should work
|
|
victoryallis
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Location: Ludington mi
Points: 2878
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 8:38pm |
|
Your money you can do what you want. Personally I always felt a 301 was a very disappointing motor. Hard starting, fuel hog, and kinda of a dog. Years ago when the 7000 was our big tractor we had clutch problems the 6080 filled in for a few days. The 6080 did everything the 7000 could except it did have minor cooling issues.
I wouldn't contaminate a 6000 with a 301.
|
|
8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
|
|
cottonpatch
Silver Level
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Location: VIRGINIA
Points: 285
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 11:27pm |
|
Never had a 6080, but we did have a 6060 with a loader that we eventually traded. It was a cold natured SOB and had to have ether if away from a plugin. I'll take the 2800/649 engine any day over the 433. Years ago (1981) when pulling farm stock was actually farm stock, we had a chance to pull our 185 with 30" tires against a 6080 in 9000# class. We dynoed after the class, our 185 clocked 81 hp. If memory serves me correct, I think the 6080 was at 93 or 95 hp. Regardless, we outpulled that tractor by 20 feet. Never had a desire to acquire a 6080 after that.
|
|
'52 CA, '61 D10 II, ‘61 D15, '66 D15II, '63 D17D III, ‘69 170, '73 185 Crop Hustler, '79 185, '79 7000, '77 7040
|
|
