F3 Auto Header and Reel speed Questions

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Fellas I'm am in need of some assistance and this may be a long post.  We bought an F3 last year and I'm getting everything back working like It should.  So far I've been quite impressed with the condition.  all the Tattletale monitors worked and I charged the AC and it started working.  the only real problems that I've run into are the Auto header control and Reel Speed. 
I'm very familiar with the auto header as I have the same setup on our 82 L2.  I determined that the wiring harness on the head has 3 open wires so I've ordered a new harness.  the harness on the combine is good so I took the head off to try to test it using jumper wires at the throat.  the strange thing was when I engaged the clutches the throat started raising and as soon as I hit the down button it would start dropping and wouldn't stop.  I had a spare control module from the L2 so I swapped it out and it fixed that problem but I still have an issue.  I ran a jumper wire between the two red (down) wires and have another jumper hooked to the 12V terminal to operate the control.  I had it jumped to go down like it would be on startup in the field and when I engage the clutches and hit the down button it will go all the way down on its own like it should.  I can disconnect the jumper and jump to the blue (up) terminal and it will raise.  but when I go back to red it wont drop.  I can climb into the cab and hit the down button with red jumped and it will drop all the way down on its own again as it should but wont drop when I jump it at the throat after raising it.  do you think I have another bad module, or maybe a rusted terminal inside the box and if I keep playing with it will start working?  any help is appreciated.

Also the reel speed adjustment doesn't work.  I disconnected the harness at the motor on the head and hooked up a test light.  it lit up when I worked the rocker switch both ways so I know the wiring harness is good.  I've never had to mess with one before so I'm curious if there's a common problem to look for.  Maybe a bad motor or maybe its just gummed up and needs to be taken apart, freed up and lubed.  I know this combine sat for a while, 5 or ten years. Once again, thanks for all your assistance.

Derek in MO

Edited by wekracer - 11 Sep 2017 at 9:25am

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wekracer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Location: Tebbetts, MO Points: 1595	Post Options Post Reply Quote wekracer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: F3 Auto Header and Reel speed Questions Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 9:19am
	Fellas I'm am in need of some assistance and this may be a long post. We bought an F3 last year and I'm getting everything back working like It should. So far I've been quite impressed with the condition. all the Tattletale monitors worked and I charged the AC and it started working. the only real problems that I've run into are the Auto header control and Reel Speed. I'm very familiar with the auto header as I have the same setup on our 82 L2. I determined that the wiring harness on the head has 3 open wires so I've ordered a new harness. the harness on the combine is good so I took the head off to try to test it using jumper wires at the throat. the strange thing was when I engaged the clutches the throat started raising and as soon as I hit the down button it would start dropping and wouldn't stop. I had a spare control module from the L2 so I swapped it out and it fixed that problem but I still have an issue. I ran a jumper wire between the two red (down) wires and have another jumper hooked to the 12V terminal to operate the control. I had it jumped to go down like it would be on startup in the field and when I engage the clutches and hit the down button it will go all the way down on its own like it should. I can disconnect the jumper and jump to the blue (up) terminal and it will raise. but when I go back to red it wont drop. I can climb into the cab and hit the down button with red jumped and it will drop all the way down on its own again as it should but wont drop when I jump it at the throat after raising it. do you think I have another bad module, or maybe a rusted terminal inside the box and if I keep playing with it will start working? any help is appreciated. Also the reel speed adjustment doesn't work. I disconnected the harness at the motor on the head and hooked up a test light. it lit up when I worked the rocker switch both ways so I know the wiring harness is good. I've never had to mess with one before so I'm curious if there's a common problem to look for. Maybe a bad motor or maybe its just gummed up and needs to be taken apart, freed up and lubed. I know this combine sat for a while, 5 or ten years. Once again, thanks for all your assistance. Derek in MO Edited by wekracer - 11 Sep 2017 at 9:25am

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DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22827	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 12:11pm
	BOTH RED WIRES HAVE TO BE SIGNALED FOR "DOWN".

wekracer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Location: Tebbetts, MO Points: 1595	Post Options Post Reply Quote wekracer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 12:23pm
	thanks for the response Dr. I have the reds jumpered together and connected to 12V. Like I said, it works when I hit the down button in the cab. I can let off the button and it will go all the way down. but when I move 12V for up it goes up and then when I connect it to down it wont go down again. both reds have a jumper wire. I can then go back in the cab and hit the down button, let off and it will go all the way back down. that's what makes me think it's a bad module.

tbran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3664	Post Options Post Reply Quote tbran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 3:57pm
	use two probes with jumper cables from a good battery to power the motor - then reverse the polarity - this will eliminate the combine. Some units use the ground off the reel speed coil as a ground - which is iffy at best. I would say you have a broke wire in the harness right where the throat pivots - these wires have to be LOAD TESTED not just with a test light. A single strand will light a light but will not trigger the transistor.. When you put the unit in auto - then hit lower the middle coil in the switch will be powered 12v. it then makes contact with the back bar and sends signal to both red wires to lower - when the front bar contacts the middle spring (which can get corroded ever thought they are brass) it signals the blue wire to raise as yours does. When the front bar contacts the spring again- and yours does not lower - I think it is because you are not getting enough amps/voltage back to the module. Use a VOM volt ohm meter to check for voltage at the module. And yes one can put a test wire in the 12 v section of the header harness and contact the reds and blue wire separate from the header to simulate operation. This can be done with the engine OFF with header locked up and safety ram stop applied - jump the oil pressure switch and then operate having someone listen for the coil clicks. If you have a helper it is easier to communicate if the noise is off. Afterward remember to unjump the switch on the oil pressure or you have a safety hazard. Testing the auto header with the engine running is not the safest thing to do either - be safe!
	When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..

MACK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664	Post Options Post Reply Quote MACK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 10:18pm
	Reel speed is a small electric motor that moves a pin shaped spool in or out to control the flow of oil. The motor will get moisture in it causing it to stick is the most common problem. MACK

wekracer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Location: Tebbetts, MO Points: 1595	Post Options Post Reply Quote wekracer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 6:06am
	Thanks for the help. I'll keep working on it. Dad wants to run it in beans this year. I'll post my findings. One other question. Last year I was having trouble with the feeder beater constantly plugging on the L2 and Drallis I believe suggested putting six springs in the slip clutch instead of the three as the book says. I'm wondering if I should do that on the F3 as well. If dad plugs it I will still be the one pulling bean stalks out. Thanks again.

Meanolallis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 04 Sep 2013 Points: 138	Post Options Post Reply Quote Meanolallis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 11:50am
	Like Mack says, the small electric motor on mine got moisture in it and quit working. I took it apart (rather tricky - lots of sections to the motor and you have the motor brushes to deal with). If I remember correctly, it was very challenging to hold the motor brushes out while putting the commutator between them. I cleaned up the brushes/commutator, etc., got it all back together and sealed up with RTV and now it works.

SteveM C/IL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8984	Post Options Post Reply Quote SteveM C/IL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 12:38pm
	Fill all holes with new springs.Be sure to set clutch up as described in manual.Book tells how to set beater for crop conditions you face.I think mine (F2) is fully raised with maximum retraction on back side.Have never plugged beater since.Plugged often before.

jbirnsch Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 02 Jun 2010 Location: Egg Harbor, WI Points: 82	Post Options Post Reply Quote jbirnsch Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 3:05pm
	Put pieces of pipe in instead of springs. We did this and our problems were over. No more digging like a rat and having the 4' Rigid pipe wrench to turn a slug out. Sure the occasional broken chain but a lot less headaches.

wekracer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Location: Tebbetts, MO Points: 1595	Post Options Post Reply Quote wekracer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 8:21pm
	Thanks for all the help. I think I will stick with springs. I put all 6 in the L2 last year and I haven't had a problem since. That was my only complaint with that machine. I will be getting it ready for corn this week so it will be next week before I get back to the F3. Thanks again

FREEDGUY Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396	Post Options Post Reply Quote FREEDGUY Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 8:41pm
	JB, I think I would rather dig than jack with a broken chain

MACK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664	Post Options Post Reply Quote MACK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 9:57pm
	I would rather dig it out than put a new beater in when it bends a finger and cuts beater into. Have saw it happen, not pretty. If beater is plugging, check cylinder belt. If cylinder is slowing down, beater will over feed cylinder causing slip clutch to slip. If every thing is working right, there is no need for extra springs. MACK