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ac hunter 
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 Topic: engine id help again please
Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 9:23am |
   Here are some more pictures of the engine I am trying to identify. The last picture is of the raised area by the air cleaner where the engine serial number should be but it is blank. To me the engine looks like a standard WD-45 but I don't have one right beside it to compare. The tractor SN is WD-229446 which should be a 1956 model. The left side of the block has "G7L"f and the right side "AM-3858-2" raised in the casting. Thanks for your help, Russell.
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ac fleet
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Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 11:13am |
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I have 2 -- 45's sitting here, They are either 55 or 56. Probably could look at casting # on them if it would help any!
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TimCNY
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Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 12:59pm |
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"AM-3858-2"
Actually what I'm reading from the photo is AM3858 21. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong.
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I need more than 200 characters for my "signature." I'd love to see that changed to 250!
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ac hunter
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Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 3:08pm |
I have 1954 tractor SN-186606, engine casting #AM-3853-1 with a 2 beneath and engine SN WD-44286G. Also a 1955 tractor SN- WD-192493, engine casting #AM-3853-8 with a 1 beneath and engine SN 45-22499G. Tim, I was thinking that could be a 1 also but am leaning toward it being the end of the area with the number. ACfleet, if you had the casting numbers for your tractors it might be interesting. I am wondering if the "AM" is the prefix for WD engines? Could my motor in question be a new factory replacement and not have a serial number for that reason? Seems strange that the area for the number is raised there but nothing on it. Wonder too if the D-17's have AM casting numbers. Thanks for the help, Russell.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 4:22pm |
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If there is no S/N stamped, that means the block was replaced with a new block at some time in the past. The usual reason was a tractor that didn't have antifreeze in it.
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ac hunter
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Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 6:56pm |
Thank you Dr. Allis. So do you think it is probably a WD-45 block? Then it could have had higher compression pistons in it and that would account for it appearing to turn over harder. I was afraid it had something odd like a combine or other motor put into it. I'm hoping I can get enough battery to turn it over and still use a standard battery box. Guess maybe we'll see this winter. Thanks for the help.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 7:56pm |
ac hunter, As mentioned: Looks like a replacement block, WD 45 style. As far as whats in side you need to check the stroke. 4 inche stroke = WD crank, 4.5 inch stroke = WD45 crank. Should be able to spin it real good with a 12volt system. I have a block like that in my WD45, no serial number on the block. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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MACK
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Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 8:16pm |
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Since 1953, it could have been rebuilt a dozen times, so compression could be anywhere. Some one may have put a WD kit in a WD45, which puts it pretty hi. MACK
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Brian G. NY
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Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 8:42pm |
Your tractor Ser. # makes it a 1956 WD-45. I believe the first 4 digits of the engine casting number should be 3853. I have a '56 WD-45 (Ser.#223202) with a block casting #3853-10 and a blank Ser. number. I also have a '56 WD-45 (Ser.#229500) with an engine Ser.#45-89836-G........ I'm guessing that one and yours must not have been too far apart coming down the assembly line.
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ac hunter
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Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 7:36am |
Thanks for all the good information. Sugarmaker, probably an obvious answer but how do I measure the stroke length. Do I have to have the head or pan off? About every year I put a battery in the tractor without the plugs in and crank it for a while with oil pressure to lube things. It really spins the motor. Plugs in it barely turns it over. Now I remember that one of threads for a plug is messed up. When I first took the plug out some threads came out with it. Hope that can be repaired. Brian, it does sound like out tractors possibly knew each other; pretty close numbers. That casting number could be a 3, I'll have to go look again, it's kind of dark back in the corner where the tractor is. Any idea what the last digit(s) on the casting number mean? Does your have power steering? This one has the AC set up. Hope the seals don't leak like the other one I have. Guess I'll learn more when I can get it in the shop and get into things more. Thanks.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 7:53am |
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You can all speculate and debate what kind and size of internal parts are in that engine, and still not have a clue. Remove all the spark plugs. Open the throttle wide open. Connect a battery charger to the battery. Run a cranking compression test. A real stock WD45 will have 120-125 lbs of compression. A D-17 motor kit will run 145 lbs of compression.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:12am |
ac hunter, I have taken off the pan (when I was changing pan gasket) and its fairly easy to look up in the engine and measure the stroke. That can tell you what crank you have. But still doesnt tell you what piston is on top of the rod. Doesn't tell you if the cam was swapped out.
I agree with the others you don't really know unless you do some checking or maybe even disassembly. One thing for sure is that it has been apart and components of some type have been put into a new block! (I need to get a compression tester!) That could be a indicator of the components and engine condition to.
Hope that helps a little. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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ac hunter
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Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:51am |
Dr. Allis, Thanks for that info. A compression test is pretty easy, I even have a gauge. Sugarmaker, I hope that I don't have to do much disassembly since the motor was running fine when I got the tractor. Except for the spark plug thread issue. Can't tell about the pan gasket or crank seals though. Thanks.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:55am |
I would not take it apart just to check the stroke! Sounds like the compression numbers may be the thing to try first! Run it! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 9:15am |
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Not sure how knowing what's insidehelps anything. Get it running in top shape and move on.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 9:18am |
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Knowing what the compression actually is, will help determine if there really is a starter problem or not.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 12:15pm |
Well I bought a WD years ago, not running that had a 45 block.Stuck engine, turned out that it had the WD engine components moved over to the new block. It would have worked well as a WD. I never got it back in that tractor. It is nice that the parts are interchangeable in these. very versatile design. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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ac hunter
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Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 5:40pm |
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Well guys, I checked the compression today and had 160, 158 and 165 lbs. The #3 spark plug threads are boogered up so couldn't get the gauge in that hole. Seems pretty high so I guess that is why it turns over so hard. Not sure what to do about the plug threads yet. Someone has evidently drilled out the plug hole and put a plug with larger diameter threads in it. Maybe I an just clean the threads up with a tap and use the larger plug. First I will need to get the correct tap. Looks like the start of another winter project.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 5:57pm |
ac, I have not seen this mentioned much, but I assume there is a helicoil that could repair that spark plug thread? Sounds like your in the D17 compression number range or more. I need to get one of those units to check cylinder compression on engines. Some of these guys have forgotten more than I will ever know about these orange tractors! Sounds like you have a good strong engine! Get that thread repaired and you will be good to go for a long time. What are your plans. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 7:22am |
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ac hunter, my propane conversion tractor had 190 psi on the high cylinder and 175 on the low, it spun over just fine. 12 volt system. Compression probably not your problem.
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ac hunter
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Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 7:26am |
Sugarmaker, others, I have heard of helicoils and understand they repair threads but have no idea how to install or make one work. Do you or anyone here think if I can get the existing oversized threads cleaned up I can just use the plug with larger threads? When I took the plug out years ago I remember something that looked like a couple of threads came out with it and fell off, maybe that was a helicoil. As for plans I guess the short term thing is to get the engine running and see how that goes. The previous owner rewired and installed a solenoid to engage the starter and an alternator; what a mess. Some of the wire looks to be from an extension cord and it is missing insulation and runs all around. Bad ground on the solenoid. Very messy job, but it works. The carb isn't original, at least for a WD-45, and has been "rebuilt" with a threaded bolt that sticks out about 2 inches for the cross shaft. From the gas tank forward things looks pretty good but a good bit to do to from there back. Fenders rusted through and bent, steering wheel pretty bad, battery box mostly gone. Has combine wheels and needs tires. The original wheel centers and attaching hardware did come with it but will have to buy a set of rims. Snap coupler may need some repair. The good thing is that it ran and drove OK, as I recall, when I got it. Thanks for the help. I'm sure I will have more questions when I get into it. Russell.
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ac hunter
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Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 7:30am |
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Mike, After looking things over a little more yesterday there could very well be a ground issue. Spins fine with plugs out. Lots of potential in all the wiring for bad electrical connections though. Thanks.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 9:32am |
ac hunter, Sounds like it has you right where it wants you! On the fence! Clean it fix it and keep going! That could have been helicoil insert that came out. You need to get that chewcked. I have never put them in but a good machine shop should be able to help you fix the head to accept the correct plug size. Have to get out and do something today! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 9:34am |
 ac hunter wrote:
Maybe I an just clean the threads up with a tap and use the larger plug. First I will need to get the correct tap. Looks like the start of another winter project. |
If there is a thread insert in the hole, you'll probably ruin a good tap trying to chase the threads. A decent replacement head shouldn't be hard to find. I have a short head from a 47WC acting as a paper weight in my shop.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 5:46pm |
there are helicoil kits for spark plugs, in steel or aluminum, any thread you want. Also the ones for spark plugs don't have the tang to break off, and bang around in the cylinder. Other than that, they all pretty much install the same way. Ask a good mechanic what he would use in a cast iron head. Putting in a helicoil is a lot less work, than replacin a head... 
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ac hunter
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Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 7:21am |
Dave, thanks for the helicoil video. That looks like a lot less work and stress than changing the head. I hate to have to remove an otherwise good head from a running engine. I have a good machine shop closeby that has rebuilt several motors for me over the years and will see if he can remedy the problem. Without knowing for sure I think the clutch may be on the short end so I would need to remove the engine anyway. Looks like more complications already. Of course the first project will be to make enough room in the shop to get the tractor in. Seems like there is always something else to do before you can do what you need to do. One question about the helicoil, is it a fairly permanent fix or is it likely to come out when the spark plug is taken out? Mr. CTUCKER, I will keep your head in mind if plan A doesn't work. Thanks for all the help.
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