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RMD 
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Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Location: Connecticut
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 Topic: Electronic ignition conversion for 12V +ground
Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 2:39pm |
I want to convert my Series II D-12 to electronic ignition. It is 12 volt, positive ground (with original generator). Most ignition kits seem to be for 12 volt, negative ground. Denny's Carb shop ( http://dennyscarbshop.com/contents/en-us/d54.html) indicates that they have a kit for 12 volt positive ground. Does anybody have any experience with this kit? Is there any reason I would need to modify the electrical system other than to install the electronic module in the place of the points and condenser?
Similarly, does anybody have experience with the kits for 6 volt positive ground? (I also have an older D12).
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Boss Man
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Joined: 03 Mar 2018
Location: Greenleaf, WI
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Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 2:47pm |
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I put a 6V positive ground in my 8N Ford. Worked great for 12-15 years. Took it back out last winter because the tractor wouldn't run. Biggest thing on 6V is removing/ by passing the resistor. When I had the shop I installed several of the 12V Petronix. Just had to make sure the coil had the right resistance..
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 3:47pm |
I get anything electrical for www.brillman.com ; They have the 12volt+ ground units available and are not the shister that Denny's Carb shop is. the biggest thing is to be sure to connect the wires correctly for + ground. I've had just as good of service from the +ground units as the -ground ones. weather it be 6 or 12 volt.
The Petronix # for 12V+ is : 1142P12 For 12_ it's: 1142 The 6V+ unit is: 1142P6 These numbers fit all the 4 cylinder Delco distributors with a spring cap.
Edited by PaulB - 15 Sep 2020 at 7:01am
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 3:53pm |
I'd reflash the genny for 12V NEGATIVE ground...easy and NO *&*&*&blue smoke when a 'friend' helps you boost the tractor with his truck..... It seems NONE of the EI units are 'protected'.....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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Hubert (Ga)engine7
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Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 9:03pm |
 jaybmiller wrote:
I'd reflash the genny for 12V NEGATIVE ground...easy and NO *&*&*&blue smoke when a 'friend' helps you boost the tractor with his truck..... It seems NONE of the EI units are 'protected'.....
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X2. Pretty easy to switch over to negative ground and avoid problems in the future. I changed my D15II over several years ago.
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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 9:54pm |
I carry the 12V PG kits in stock if interested. Just need the Distributor number. The popular "D" series Delco is the 1112593 model. But check your Distributor number on the tag. I can fix ya up with what you need. Steve@B&B bb-customcircuits.com
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 15 Sep 2020 at 8:05am |
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I'll third Jay and Hubert's suggestion- convert the tractor over to negative ground, and use the negative ground ignition module. It'll eliminate the jump-start problem AND give you the ability to use LED lamps 'n stuff that're polarity sensitive
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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RMD
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Location: Connecticut
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Posted: 15 Sep 2020 at 11:13am |
The AC 12v positive ground generator on the Series II D-12 uses a voltage regulator rather than the "cut-out" that was on the 6v models. If I reverse polarity on the generator, won't that require a different voltage regulator?
Does the engine need to be running to flash the generator? Mine is currently not running (no spark). I assume the polarity change has to occur before installing the electronic ignition if I were to change to negative ground.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 15 Sep 2020 at 11:20am |
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Hay Dave, I've got a shelf full of 16Watt CREE LEDs that are NOT 'polarity ' sensitive. They work fine on +ve grpund, -ve ground or even AC !
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 15 Sep 2020 at 12:35pm |
Does the engine need to be running to flash the generator? Mine is currently not running (no spark). I assume the polarity change has to occur before installing the electronic ignition if I were to change to negative ground.
You do not have to run the motor to flash the gen/regulator... you dont have to wait for this to do the ignition. You switch the battery terminals and you are half way there. Some regulators are + or - operation... they change when you flash them.. Some can not be changed. .... You normally need to switch the terminals on the amp meter to get it to read in the right direction. Once the electronic ignition has been installed and is working, jumper the B to G terminals on the regulator and see if it starts charging correctly after startup..
Edited by steve(ill) - 15 Sep 2020 at 12:37pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 17 Sep 2020 at 12:31am |
jaybmiller wrote:
Hay Dave, I've got a shelf full of 16Watt CREE LEDs that are NOT 'polarity ' sensitive. They work fine on +ve grpund, -ve ground or even AC !
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I have some of those, too... but I have many that do not.  |
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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DaveWisc.
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Posted: 17 Sep 2020 at 7:47am |
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I am stupid maybe but what is the advantage for the new type ignition.
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 17 Sep 2020 at 12:52pm |
Eliminates the points and condenser Has a "fixed" dwell. (no rub block to wear out and change the dwell as they wear) Faster starts. More precise and even spark at the plugs. Works with stock coils or aftermarket hotter coils. Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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BigGuy1000
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Location: NWIL
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Posted: 17 Sep 2020 at 9:27pm |
I have run a 6V +Ground Pertronix on a 1951 WD for about 10 years, worked perfectly most times, but first two years I found that it did not start well when battery low or in zero temps, it would crank slowly and not fire, then had to hand crank, hard to crank as it has an MW piston kit! I finally solved that problem, see the link below. Now self starts ok at zero! Assuming that the D12 has the same distributor as WD, Delco 111745, the Pertronix kit no is 1142P6. You may have to change the wiring to the distributor slightly as per instructions in the kit, but keep the low voltage wires down low and close to the block, may need to lengthen wires to keep them far away from the spark wires! No other changes are needed, it will work fine with the original coil.
Other than using the battery maintainer, it has run fine for ten years.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 10:44pm |
DaveWisc. wrote:
I am stupid maybe but what is the advantage for the new type ignition. |
I'll add one 'why' to the 'what' of Steve's note:
In a mechanical ignition system, the points are actuated by lobes on the distributor shaft, and between the points and lobs is a rubbing block.
The rubbing block wears, as do the point lobes, and the result is less point GAP (due to block wear), and less point LIFT (due to lobe wear).
The OTHER part that wears, is the SHAFT BUSHING, and as it wears, the point cam-to-rubbing-block force will cause the shaft to drift 'off center', and eventually the shaft bushing will be worn enough for the shaft to 'wander' around the distributor's centerline, rather than saying true... again, reducing gap, and making timing inconsistent.
By replacing the points system with the Pertronix' magnetic reluctance sensor, any shaft to bushing slop becomes irrelevant, as is point cam and block wear- the gap, lift, and dwell character is eliminated, thus becomes irrelevant... it triggers reliably without drama.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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