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thendrix 
Orange Level
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: Fairmount GA
Points: 4740
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 Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 11:39am |
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I've seen an easement "agreement" go bad with some former neighbors. Neighbor A bought property at the road. Neighbor A's property line is the center of the driveway for neighbor B. When neighbor B bought, what I would consider, a flag pole lot, he owned to the center of the driveway. Neighbor A agreed to a joint use of the split driveway. The problem came when neighbor A built a shop behind his house for his tree service equipment. He used the half owned driveway for access and did some damage to it coming in and out constantly with heavy equipment and trucks. The problem neighbor B ran into is there was an old road bed from the road to his property but it needed a fair amount of repair to be usable hence the easement in the first place. Neighbor B went to the county to complain about the wear and tear on the driveway from neighbor A and they told him "since you have alternate access we can't make him fix the driveway." Basically they fixed the driveway as needed until they were fed up and moved. Neighbor A had no problem with being an ass but neighbor B wasn't exactly cordial when bringing up the damage to the driveway either. Just a bad situation that lasted several years. I'd bet if both parties had stepped off their high horse it could've been a lot better.
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access
Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 11399
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Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 12:01pm |
 AllisFreak MN wrote:
Personally I would never sell land I already own until I absolutely have to. They quit making more of it a long time ago. Just my opinion though. |
Useless to me though, and an asset I can liquidate to address other needs, without selling something that generates annual income. Yah, there’s potentially future value, but I have to weigh it out.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 21557
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Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 12:14pm |
'potential future value' only counts if YOU live into that future...... say you get $10K today, future value ,in 10 years ,is $12K you've had $10K to play with for 10 years....might be worth more than the extra 2K in 'future bucks' ?
lotta scenarios to look at, for sure.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Ray54
Orange Level Access
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
Points: 4370
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Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 7:49pm |
jaybmiller wrote:
where I am ,can't have 'flagpole' lots as city say must have 100' frontage,though with enough coins donated, you can have that reduced......
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 Much more of that goes on  than we non connected people want to think about. 
I think others cleared the flag lot term up. But my main thing was if you think you want to sell the access rather than a easement do it now before your governor spends any more time with mine giving yours even dumber ideas. Very interesting how bad ideas move from place to place. In the mid 80's children of my grandfather's half-brother hunted my mom and a uncle up. They from Ontario Canada to us in California. Some of what they were fighting and sounded crazy has come here as well as bad idea from here going there. If crazy people run things they look everywhere for more crazy ideas.
So in my mind if you sell any, include the access on land they own not on a easement on land you own. Then you should have much less liability. But since most legislators where attorneys before getting elected, all bills are written to be a full employment act for lawyers.
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 5642
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Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 7:56pm |
There's another thing that happens that probably wouldn't happen here, but still something to be aware of:
Prescriptive right.
This is when a circumstance of some access or area use occurs which is NOT addressed in any formal easement, but it is maintained that way for a certain amount of time after which, state statute identifies that the circumstance is now a de-facto easement.
How does this happen?
Well, it happens many ways. The MOST COMMON circumstance of Prescriptive Right starts with something like a natural disaster... tornado, flood, etc. that takes out a bridge, or a power line. For recovery, a temporary path is utilized to restore access, power, etc... but a decade or so later, the temporary path is still being utilized and maintained.
Even IF the original problem was resolved, if the temporary access isn't vacated and returned to it's original place, the path BECOMES a permanent easment By Prescriptive Right.
So let's say the land is sold, and no defined easement is established for access... and the property owner decides to make his access path from some undesirable place, through an undesireable path, to his property... and continues to do so for longer than the state statute applies (usually 10-15yrs)...
That pathway is now essentially HIS, because prescriptive right has made a de-facto easement through parts of your property that now, you cannot change.
I faced the circumstance of a prescriptive right across my former property where the utility company had placed a 'temporary' 7500v utility line right through the center of my lot, with one leg about 5 feet above the peak of my garage roof. The PLATTED utility easement was located along the railway at the back of my property. It had been moved to the center when the railway had to remedy an old crossing in the back, and they never moved the lines back to original placement. I was coming up on the statutory limit, and had to demand that the line get moved. They said 'no', I pulled the records and sent them another registered letter advising that they did not have prescriptive right, and that if they did not have it removed by a set time, on a set date, that I would have no choice but to remove it for them. They called to "warn me" not to do that, because it was 'dangerous'. I advised that the state statute on temporary easement termination was up to the landowner to enforce, but likewise, the responsibility of the safety of their lines was wholly theirs, hence, my chainsaw blade was sharp, and my lawyer, the sheriff, and the fire department would be all invited.
Their lawyer called me back and promised to send me a letter identifying that they would discontinue the line's path PRIOR to expiration of the statute, please do not cut the poles. Two days later, they moved the line back to the back of the property.
Some things are just so unreasonably tricky...
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Jeromesville, O
Points: 9680
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Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 2:35pm |
Around here if a property is sold it has to have road access and a house number. I believe it has to be at least 20 feet. If it's land locked it can't be sold .
Edited by tadams(OH) - 29 Jan 2024 at 2:36pm
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MNLonnie
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Baxter MN
Points: 4791
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Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 7:46pm |
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I'm guessing all states vary but here my easement is on my deed so matter who buys the property I will always have the easement to mine and as far as keeping an easement open that's not thing. You can't block it on purpose but you sure don't have to maintain it.
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4415
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Posted: 03 Feb 2024 at 6:11am |
MNLonnie wrote:
I'm guessing all states vary but here my easement is on my deed so matter who buys the property I will always have the easement to mine and as far as keeping an easement open that's not thing. You can't block it on purpose but you sure don't have to maintain it. |
It's, basically, the same in New York.
An easement is just the right to access the property, usually for a specific intended purpose, which is outlined in the language of the easement, on the deed.
An example is that our local volunteer fire department has an easement on one of my properties solely for the access of a water supply. I have no responsibility, other than keeping it open for them. I make sure the snow is removed, but that is strictly voluntary on my part.
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truckerfarmer
Orange Level Access
Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Location: Watertown, SD
Points: 3183
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Posted: 03 Feb 2024 at 6:54am |
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Okay, I've got a couple questions. With an easement you still have to pay the property taxes on that ground, correct? Also, with an easement, wouldn't you still be responsible for the liability insurance on it? Meaning if someone gets hurt or killed on your property (the easement) could you be held liable?
Just some food for thought.
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tadams(OH)
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Jeromesville, O
Points: 9680
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Posted: 03 Feb 2024 at 7:45am |
That would be my read on it
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WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4415
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Posted: 03 Feb 2024 at 7:48am |
truckerfarmer wrote:
Okay, I've got a couple questions. With an easement you still have to pay the property taxes on that ground, correct? Also, with an easement, wouldn't you still be responsible for the liability insurance on it? Meaning if someone gets hurt or killed on your property (the easement) could you be held liable?
Just some food for thought. |
Yes, I pay property taxes on all easements that I own, and there are several. In addition to the fire department easement I spoke of earlier, the electric utility has an easement on every parcel. I don't have any, but there are easements for gas lines. On the parcels that have a county or town road, there are easements. I own and pay taxes to the center of the road. (In NY State, NYSDOT owns most state roads/highways, but most county and local roads are easements.)
Liability is strictly about something you are responsible for or negligent about. If I am responsible for something that causes damage or injury to someone or their property, I have liability. If the propery owner is responsible or negligent, they are responsible, easement or no easement.
A few years ago, a property owner in northern NY placed a cable across a trail on his property that was frequented by ATV's, to keep them from using the area. There was no easement, right-of-way or permission to use the trail. A guy who didn't know it was there, hit the cable, was ejected and suffered life threatening (and permanently disabling) injuries. Not only was the property owner held liable, but he was also charged criminally.
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