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Driveway or easement? |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 10:21am |
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Probably varying opinions on this and that’s ok. I’m just curious what y’all think and why. I’ve got a piece of land with a sizable wooded area in the back. I have a person who wants to buy the woods. I am debating whether to sell him a driveway off to the side of my field or to establish an easement. Would have to be surveyed either way so I don’t think upfront cost is an issue.
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24335 |
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If 'easement' YOU must maintain roadway 24/7/365 no matter what the weather conditions are and YOU don't get any holidays. If the 'road' is part of HIS 'wooded land', then YOU can sit in nice warm house while HE plows HIS driveway...... Don't know what part of Michigan you're in ,but some areas get LOTS of snowflakes ! Either way, be sure there's a fence/barrier in between. Some uninvited friends of his friends might decide to 'play' on YOUR land with their monster trucks.....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Trust me, he’s no snowflake.
We did get about 18 inches worth of them a couple weeks ago though! And maybe you “have to”, but I see a lot of them that aren’t! Edited by Tbone95 - 25 Jan 2024 at 11:04am |
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24335 |
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yeesh, 1 1/2 ' of snow...you must have got all mine then ! Thank you ! I've only puseh 2-3 INCHES this winter, even now , that's melting. and making it very,very foggy here today.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Lars(wi) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7697 |
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Consult your local township about what they may require if you sell. Does this track of land border another road? Not sure on MI laws, but there may be different responsibilities/requirements if classified as ‘easement’ vs ‘right of way’.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Lars(wi) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7697 |
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Keep in mind, this guy may be great and all that, but in a few years he may sell to a complete a-hole, or worse yet a solar or wind developer.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24335 |
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from the other side of the fence... 3 decades ago I didn't buy a few acres as it only had a 'right of way ' or 'easement',so if the owner died, I'd have ZERO access to the land. for sure check local laws and 'wording' !!!
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85476 |
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State put in a new HIGHWAY and there was no access to some ground BEHIND my Father in Law... Father in Law gave him an EASEMENT at the edge about 200 ft long so the guy could get back to HIS PROPERTY... He takes care of the road or he dont get in... We still cut the grass along the driveway as we always had done..
HIS ground has been sold 3 times in 40 years... Father in law died 10 years ago....The plan just keeps rolling along, no problems. Edited by steve(ill) - 25 Jan 2024 at 12:31pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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No other way to get to the land than through the field part.
Easements transfer here, it’s illegal to sell landlocked property For sure I’ll be checking with the township, just gathering thoughts. I’m leaning towards driveway, just be done with it. |
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DanWi ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: wttn Points: 1900 |
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Don't know if there would be any difference, but there may be a requirement for how wide that access strip has to be.
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5957 |
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This is the key element. Every state has land access laws, and the ownership of land has provisio for access REGARDLESS of wether there is a formal easement, or not, so the sensible action is to set forth the easement in writing, so there's no question. An easement is 'blanket permission' to cross property. An easement can be (and usually is) committed to people OTHER than the person OTHER than the person you sell to... i.e. a utility company... and becomes part of the property, they're durable... once you commit the easement, you cannot recind it, it can only be recinded by whomever it is granted... and usually they don't. The wise choice, if you're selling, is to survey it all out, establish the driveway, and leave the buyer to commit their easements. This first gives them unfettered access to the property, second gives them a path for all easements WITHOUT need for crossing your property, and finally, leaves you free of any liabilities to them. But regardless of HOW you do it, make certain you establish any future easements on the property you SELL... that YOUR property will need. If your electrical power, telephony, etc., passes through that parcel, or you have a fenceline access or pasture, or flowage, that needs to be committed to the property by you before you sell. Is there any place on YOUR property where you do any aerial spraying, or other low flight? If so YOU need to include in the sale an Avigation Easement... which is an easement that restricts elevation of anything which would restrict approach, departure, or maneuvering.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Will be surveyed this year sometime assuming I can rub a couple coins together.
The total amount of land I own at the location is 40 acres. The portion to be sold I’d estimate to be about 15, plus whatever I do with the driveway. The driveway would be on the north side a bit less than 1/4 mile long. There’s a hunting property behind that with a private driveway, would be great if we could strike some sort of deal with those guys but highly doubtful. The good news is that electrical already goes down that drive. The property doesn’t touch anything else I own, no buildings, no fence, no water, no aerial spraying…. Does have a power line running through it. |
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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What Jay says about easements, is not the way it is in New York State. I'm sure laws vary by state.
In New York, an easement can be given for several different reasons. One of my neighbors leases some wooded land, behind his tillable land, for hunting. The hunting club that leases has use of the easement certain times of the year, for the sole purpose of accessing the land. Power lines, gas lines, internet providers, phone companies and highways commonly have easements and their easements only provide access. No maintenance is required by the landowner, but, in some cases, you must allow the person/company that has the easement to do maintenance (at no expense to the landowner). If you allow an easement, you own the land and pay taxes on the land, but often (especially in the case of utilities) the easement owner is responsible for the taxes on poles, wires, pipelines, etc. on the easement. Easements are a permanent addendum to your deed and can only be removed by the easement holder asking that the easement be removed (often done when an unused road is "abandoned"). Check with an attorney to see what protects your interests best.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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YEP! |
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iowallis ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 04 Jun 2017 Location: North Iowa Points: 351 |
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If you go the easement route, does the guy plan on using it for hunting only? Or plan on building a house/shop/hunting lodge/whatever back there. Are you okay with it if he does?
May want to check into having it be an "agricultural use only" or "recreational use only" type easement if you are not interested in having the type of traffic (regularly) that a residence has instead of what a hunting ground (infrequent) traffic would have.
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Dirt Farmer ![]() Silver Level Access ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 385 |
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Maybe reading into this but were you contemplating selling some acreage before this person inquired. If not, why bother selling, good first impression today but wait till all their friends show up at all hours to go 4 wheeling and partying or bringing out the tannerite. Trees and fences make great neighbors.
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thendrix ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Fairmount GA Points: 5010 |
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After reading through the responses, I believe if I wanted to sell the acreage I would sell a driveway too if it's not too inconvenient. That way you're not responsible for their access and their property line is established. Can't argue it if something on your land gets destroyed. If a driveway doesn't suit you I wouldn't sell if I didn't have to
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Yes, I was. I could really use some $$$ and I’ll never get use of this land. Too sandy to bother cleaning, timber isn’t great and I’d hate to see that happen anyway. The concerns about partying and ripping around with quads and monster trucks are perhaps a common problem, but I would be beyond immensely surprised if that happened. |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Ya Tyler, that’s where I’m leaning. Thanks. |
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24335 |
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Maybe the guy you're thinking of selling is 'OK' but 3 months later, he has to sell and THAT new guy is a huge jerk.....sets up a meth plant,patries til next day, loud music,.. A lot depends on how far away the 'land for sale' is from your house and your neighbours is. Heck, if you need the coins or forced to sell, you roll the dice. Just want you to have 'open eyes' before you sign on the dotted line
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Haha, well yeah, it’s over 1/2 mile away, I’ve got them closer than that already! |
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Ray54 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4659 |
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Here in Calif the selling of the road is generally not allowed, as planners/building code people have a problem with "FLAG LOTS". Why I don't know why, but ran into it when settling my parents estate and dividing land.
I think it makes sense to sell the land under the access road. Probably part of the reason the "woke" in charge in government here don't like it. It makes sense. As was stated easements are treated different in different place. Here all maintenance of the road on the easement is the easement owner's responsibility.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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To be honest Ray, I don’t really follow what you’re saying….but to clarify, there currently is no road or driveway to the wooded area in back, one would just drive across the field. Whatever I would call it, it would be along the north border. |
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Lars(wi) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7697 |
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Tbone, I think what Ray is implying is, some areas in this country any type of ‘rural development’, ‘urban sprawl’, etc., is tightly controlled by township boards, village planners, civil engineers, and so on. The term ‘Master Plan’ is what many of these governmental agencies stealthy operate under. The urban sprawl believe or not is tightly controlled as for what will be allowed to be constructed in certain areas, if that development is too much in conflict of what those behind the scenes want to see. Is your region under the control of these stealthy operatives? |
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85476 |
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I am going to guess that T-bone is WAY TO RURAL to worry about the "rules and regulations".. but worth checking into locally.Flag lots are plots of land named for their resemblance to a flagpole, with a long, slender strip (typically just a driveway) extending from the street up to a rectangular main section. The main part of the lot is surrounded by neighbors on all sides, with no street frontage (beyond the driveway), which can be a positive or a negative depending on your preferences. Flag lots are frequently considered undesirable by homebuyers — and thus, they are often cheaper than more standard-shaped lots.Cons of a flag lotThere are disadvantages to flag lots as well, including:
Edited by steve(ill) - 28 Jan 2024 at 9:11am |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Thanks! Yeah, nearest urban sprawl……, hmmm…100+ miles I’d guess. What I’ve got laid out would qualify. But picture a cluster of flags. Mine would be a corporate logo, the parcel east of me would be Old Glory towering high above me! |
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85476 |
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Probably from the Street, it looks like he has a driveway at the edge of a FIELD.. Might give the impression that HE owns the field or YOU own the field.. nobody cares...
The PROBLEM comes in if you sell a PLOT at the street next to the driveway.. The NEW GUY builds a house 10 ft from the OLD driveway.. Now the OLD guy has the FLAG POLE. City, Fire Dept, Cops... probably many dont like the "hidden land" .... not your problem, buy that is why many frown on it.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24335 |
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where I am ,can't have 'flagpole' lots as city say must have 100' frontage,though with enough coins donated, you can have that reduced......
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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Even though our little town has no zoning, there are state "setback" laws that stipulate how close any building can be to a property line. Getting back to the original topic, I don't think there is a blanket best answer. There are pros and cons to both options; easement or actually selling a strip of property for access. Something to keep in mind is that whatever you decide is a forever deal. Even though the guy you are dealing with may be respectful, down the road, it could be a problem for your or his decedents or whomever either property is transferred to. That's why I advise using an attorney, who may foresee legal or other problems in the future.
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AllisFreak MN ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Location: Minnesota Points: 1574 |
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Personally I would never sell land I already own until I absolutely have to. They quit making more of it a long time ago. Just my opinion though.
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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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