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FREEDGUY 
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Joined: 15 Apr 2017
Location: South West Mich
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 Topic: Definition Of A Farmer ??
Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 5:43pm |
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What IS the definition ?? Does a person ONLY meet criteria "if" he/she is the only one doing the work/bringing in the checks ??
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
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Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 6:11pm |
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 7:03pm |
???????? You cant be a FARMER if you work for someone else ? ...
You cant be a farmer if you farm your DADS place ?
You cant be a farmer if you and your BROTHER own the farm 50- 50 ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Dave H
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Central IL
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 6:38am |
I think they are few and far between. Think those folks that always complain about being impoverished, drive new model 4X4 pick ups, and have air conditioned tractors that bend in the middle and other stuff that is controlled by GPS should maybe called Agriculturists or what ever. 
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DougG
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 7:21am |
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The definition has changed alot from the 80,s I believe, in my opinion the bto,s are not
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Pat the Plumber CIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Springfield,Il
Points: 4871
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 7:49am |
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My grandfather said that a farmer by definition should own at least 10 cows, 20 pigs and thirty chickens. This should be the minimum standard to receive any subsidies from the government.
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You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails
1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF.
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Dorix
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Location: fox valley
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 8:37am |
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I don't really know the answer, but what's the definition for? Taxes, farm aid?
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Tbone95
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 8:38am |
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One who farms.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 8:47am |
Love it or hate it, capitalism is still the best system I’ve ever studied. Yes, it has its problems. Yes government involvement has its problems. But if after years, in many cases generations, of hard work, success, debt management, crisis management, planning, and probably some luck along the way, a farm operation crosses someone’s imaginary “BTO” line, and they’re no longer a farmer? Sorry, don’t buy it. It’s called success. Do they whine about being broke and come across arrogant and annoying sometimes? Yep for sure. So do the millionaires that own the manufacturing company I work for. But you know what? They’ve worked and been successful for 4 generations and they are STILL IN MANUFACTURING. 
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Ray54
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 11:38am |
A farmer is ......................A man out standing in his field.
I know way to deep for some. A old farmer that survived the depression raising turkeys out in the brush told me that 50+ years ago.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 12:28pm |
The BTO (I'd call him more of a land rapist than a farmer) that supposedly farms around my area couldn't survive without his government support checks and low paid alien workers. His workers live in squalor and work near to 24/7 while he rides around in a new pickup every year and takes more vacations a year than anyone else I know. They seem to get away with spreading manure even when the winter ban is in effect along with running their humongous-bend-in-the-middle tractors over ground that is too wet to walk across creating ruts that become mosquito ponds and compaction that will never heal. Also as for invasive weed control, which he doesn't do just causes everyone else that is trying to control invasive species will never get control of them. If a business is to survive and thrive, it should do so on it's own merits, not because of taxpayer support. I had a conversation with the county agent about this years ago when I was required to control invasive species on the CRP easement on my property. I'd tried everything known available to me, short of constant mowing, which wasn't allowed. Upon asking what I could do as long as my neighbor was doing nothing, I'd always have a problem. The agent asked who my neighbor was and after giving him the name, I was told 'Just mow it whenever you want. I'll make a note in your file" I am of the belief that the rules and consequences should apply to all equally. My opinion of the definition of a farmer would be someone who is a good steward on the land he uses to produce food and fiber, leaving it in better condition for the next generation and could not apply to anyone grabbing all they could from the land before selling out to a developer.
Edited by PaulB - 22 Jan 2022 at 12:30pm
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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dee_veloper
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 1:45pm |
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Don't confuse my personality with my attitude.
My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who you are.
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Tbone95
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 2:01pm |
So “bend in the middle” , apparently that’s part of the definition of BTO, or is that the entire requirement? Or, the year of a vehicle? You guys are entertaining for sure.
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PaulB
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 3:35pm |
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I'm only saying that the only ones that can afford the bend in the middle tractors around here are the ones supported with government money and think they have to get all the field work done in a week or 2 so they can go on vacation. Things are a bit different here in the east. Most any farmer could get by with a 100HP tractor for major work (that may even be an overkill) however everyone wants bigger. I remember early on we were cropping maybe close to 600 acres all over the county and the SuH was the "big" tractor. Although all of the ground we farmed for others back then, has now sprouted roofs. I had nothing to do with that happening.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Tbone95
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 6:03pm |
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Just curious if you have any idea what that massive payment works out to on a per acre basis?
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dr p
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Location: new york
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 7:04pm |
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Are deciding what is a farmer or what is a steward of the land or who is welfare recipients? I think our grandfathers were great at the first two. I think a lot of things forced a lot of guys heavily into the third. Government policy has made farming like our fathers impossible. It has become either drink the kool aid, become an " agribussinessman" and try not succumb to the compromises of large agriculture. Or farm another way and realize it will never support you.
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dp7000
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Location: Winchester Kent
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 8:49pm |
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Our government has a “cheap food policy “. US Agriculture policy is not
primarily for the farmer’s benefit. US policy tries to stabilize markets and secure production.
Without some type of safety net markets would take bigger swings than they do now and farmers would face feast or famine, many bankrupt, or just plain quit. Prices in super markets would swing wildly and shortages of staples likely.
Just my opinion. US has a policy of relatively cheap and plentiful food policy not welfare for farmers.
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dee_veloper
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Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 10:55pm |
It isn't just farmers who get the farm subsidies. There are "partners" as well.
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Don't confuse my personality with my attitude.
My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who you are.
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fixer1958
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Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 5:52am |
I wouldn't know the answer to that. My dad told me that a "Ranch" in Texas was 5 acres.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 6:19am |
Korean with more than 2 dogs?
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 6:25am |
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A farmer is someone who loves the land, feeds the World and might 'break even' 1 year out of 10.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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dr p
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Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 8:25am |
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I think it is more complex than that dp7000. I agree there is a government policy of keeping food prices artificially low. And it has been successful if you look at the percent of income spent on food and clothing, it has decreased dramatically since the fifties. But commodities are only a small fraction of cost of food. If the price of wheat doubled, what would be the actual effect on the cost of a loaf of bread? A couple of pennies.
I think we have a unwritten government policy of keeping commodities prices artificially low for two reasons: ever since earl butz was secretary of agriculture, the government thought they could use commodity sales as a diplomatic tool. (The only thing I think EVERYBODY on this forum could agree is a complete disaster) and smaller margins create the potential for competition which indirectly increases corporate profits. John deere and cargill have done a lot better over the last 30 years than the American farmer
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dp7000
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Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 8:35am |
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I don’t disagree. I’m trying to make the point US agriculture policy has little to do with supporting farmers.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 8:40am |
 jaybmiller wrote:
A farmer is someone who loves the land, feeds the World and might 'break even' 1 year out of 10.
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This kind of thinking is indirectly the same thing I’m talking about. Seems that once a guy becomes successful enough to support himself, a family, a growing business, he somehow is no longer a farmer. Yet that is the goal he set out with and is the same for any career or business. Breaking even 10% of the time and losing money 90% of the time is not too sustainable! (Duh). But seems people think if a guy can’t go up to the coffee shop in a 30 year old rusted out POS and cry to his buddies about how pour he is and might have to hang it up soon, he isn’t a farmer. Meanwhile, one of the friends at the coffee shop is doing ok, takes a risk and buys this guy out and grows his operation, he’s an evil “BTO”, for doing what a successful business does in capitalism. Sorry but the business side of farming is part of farming, and if you suck at it and ignore it a lot, you aren’t going to last long. Taking advantage of programs that fit for you is part of it. Maybe it shouldn’t be, I get that, but if you turn your back on money that helps while your neighbors take it, guess what, they’re getting ahead of you. If any other business takes advantage of tax laws, programs, etc, they’re called smart business men. If a farmer does it, he’s not a farmer because his great grandfather never did. The world has changed.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 8:46am |
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I asked whether evil BTO from MD got paid per acre….because last year HERE, for the programs I’m in, it was less than $5 per eligible acre( which most of mine isn’t eligible BTW). If that’s what keeps you going, that’s some thin skimming.
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Ray54
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Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 9:26pm |
Gee a lot thinking has been posted even a disagreement going on , and the originator of this will now say it is not the answer he wanted.
But there are some things that could make the rest of us smarter if we keep discussing.
I have had my hand out looking for government money since 1978. The last grain I harvested was in 2016. Since 16 I have still planted 60 acres of hay. No subsidy for that but the all risk crop insurance. Even with record drought has not payed to have it. It one year back in 11 or 12. But if they ever pay it made out on the insurance for native grass grazing, but nobody knows when payday will be. Glad I don't have to keep a banker at bay about that. But I never had more than 800 acres of cropland and no bend in the middle tractors so I guess I never made really made it to BTO. But I did support a wife and 3 kids by farming from 1979 until about 1990 when my started substitute teaching looking for a real teaching job. She had a hard time, could no tow the union/liberal line a teacher should do.
If you really want to farm and don't have specialty crop or ag truism or other specialty "thing" you better figure on taking "farmers welfare" because 99% of the other people that would farm what ground you do will take it. Not say I think we should have it BUT WE DO. Several times in my farming life congress started to cut it down. BUT IT NEVER HAPPENED.
Now if you tell me conservation compliance cost more than the payment , I can see why you would get out. I know several that stopped participating in the program here for that reason. But most stayed here and they never enforced the rules the way they said they would at the start. They said by random draw I was selected 3 years in a row for inspection. The only trouble I had was a fallow field that had voles eat the cover crop off like it was overgrazed by by sheep, goats, and cows all at once. The inspector was from 300 miles away and knew his stuff. There had been a good amount of volunteer barley, and with a bit of digging you could find handfuls 2 inches deep every foot or so. So a act of GOD, that it was bare.
Anybody that does participates knows the form you must sign swearing you don't make a million. Some how that does not seem to a apply if you are a millionaire you just have 10 other corporations or something.
Oh being nosey I looked at IRS form 1040 F, if you sold crop or livestock you better report it so your favorite uncle can let you help pay the national debt off. But if you do tillage for other farmers that is not farming and goes on a different form. Along with other not really farming things, most of us think of as farming. So I go to a professional tax man to get my forms done. After a year or 2 of my wife full time teaching my tax guy say you don't qualify as a farmer that doesn't need to pay estimated taxes quarterly. So I guess that take the guess away  I have not been a real farmer for a long time.
For the less ........................... my Farmers are outstanding in their field comment. Nobody in North America has starved because there was not food available to them. And if they wanted it as bad as drugs or alcohol they could of found money for it, or a way to trade for it. Just saw something that better than 20%(could of been over 30%) of food grown in NA is not eaten because 100's of reasons. But it's there if you are hungry.
KEEP FARMING BECAUSE WE don't seem to care if we make money CAUSE FARMING IS FUN
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 25 Jan 2022 at 6:05am |
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WHAT IS A HOBBY FARMER
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
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Unit3
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Posted: 25 Jan 2022 at 10:38am |
A Farmer Is; someone who plans for next year in November someone who hates doing bookwork so he can go see his taxman in December someone who pays for seed and fertilizer 4 months before they are planted or applied someone who goes to a bible study only to leave with more questions then he came with someone who removes their snow with a blower, tractor/loader, or pickup and push blade someone who pays $20.00 a year to sit through a boring 2 hour restricted use spray schooling someone who airs up the tires and repacks wheel bearings someone who has a pickup cab full of Milwaukee cordless tools and empty RC bottles someone who kneels in the dirt, scratches for the seed to ensure they are planted at the 2" depth and spaced correctly . someone who puts an old bath towel in a carboard box for a cat to have her kittens someone who sharpens lawn mower blades someone who will help you on moving day someone who fills and empties his own grease guns someone who picks up rocks someone who still thinks a pickup is not a pickup without an 8' box (4wd is a must) someone who can run a tractor with or without GPS someone who will help a stranger change a tire someone who can setup, fill, operate, clean out, and winterize a sprayer someone who can weld, change out circuit breakers, and replace kitchen faucets someone who prays for rain and prays against tornadoes someone who will show up without being askes to help with tornado cleanup someone who can drive their pickup while looking at their crops out the side window someone who is deadly with a rifle or a pool cue someone who can backup a trailer or 4 wheeled wagon someone who has a little four wheeler but still would like a side by side someone who can drive a straight trucks or semi's (if they are 3 peddle automatics) someone who hates weeds in their fields someone who checks over the daughters Oldsmobile before she goes back to collage someone who can change out sickle teeth and replace the guards as needed someone who can chew corn or soybeans and can tell you their moisture content someone who prays for a safe harvest someone who can combine early in the day and long into the night someone who can make most of their own repairs someone who longs for the combining to be done and is sadden when it is someone who can set a plow, V ripper, or disk ripper someone who will wash it all up and store it all away someone who gives thanks for another safe year someone who looks out at the snow covered fields and can't hardly wait to do it all again
Edited by Unit3 - 27 Jan 2022 at 7:41pm
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 25 Jan 2022 at 6:42pm |
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A farmer is a VETERAN risk taker that IS still enjoying his/her cropping/livestock/vegetable/aquatics/or whatever system(s) that produce FOOD.
And.... that knows, understands, & TRUST that by God’s Grace alone, he/she is able & Blessed to participate & accomplish all the wonderfully beautiful points that Unit3 mentioned, plus a whole lot more that are yet to be realized.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 25 Jan 2022 at 6:43pm |
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We have a winner.
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