D17-1 NF Steering shimmy

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   Howdy all,
I am still working on my D17 series 1 NF, SN 4234.  I have been trying to tighten up the slop in the front end. What I have noticed is the following:  In all gears forwards and reverse the steering seems fine, EXCEPT when going down the road in Hi 4.  The front end will shimmy, wobble, shake, whatever you want to call it when roading.  I really don't like this as I want to go on tractor drives someday and would like for it at least not do that.  I have new tires up front, repacked the front hub wheel bearings, new seal on the lower pedestal and tightened just about everything else up.  I also have noticed the steering knuckle u-joint by the bell housing has some play and I intend to replace that.  So today after doing some extensive reading on this site looking for similar problems and issues with D17 steering I thought it had to be in the front steering support.  I noticed after I reinstalled the pedestal thinking I had it licked that the spindle will still move forward and back about 1/4" or so and the steering control shaft will not move.  I thought the play had to be in the steering support.  So I took the pedestal off again and worked on taking the retaining plate out from the bottom just to inspect everything.  Drained the oil as it needed changed anyway.  Of course I found some sludge buildup everywhere, not really surprised for a 60 year old tractor, and cleaned as much as I could till i ran out of brake clean.  I could not see any excessive wear anywhere.  The steering control shaft moved fine.  The idler gear moved and looked great.  The power steering rack looked fine from what I could see.  I cleaned the steering sector gear and shaft and stuck it back in the upper cup to see if I could replicate the play. Maybe if it was slightly loose it would wobble, but tight in the upper cup it felt good.    
Any ideas on what to look for next?  It is as good as it gets? I am going to try and upload some pictures.  

things I noticed-  The steering sector gear has some wear where the worm gear meshes together.  Nothing excessive for wear.  I also did notice a hairline crack in the retainer plate.  I don't think it will hurt anything but something to consider.  The steering shaft splines look great, even the bearings look great.  #madeinUSA  I am really stumped on this one.  

Could I reassemble everything and take a shim out to allow the steering shaft assembly to fit slightly tighter to the worm gear?  Is there a gasket to use on the retainer plate or just some 515 sealant?  Is it as simple as too much air pressure in the tires?  The oil being bad?  Could the rack be loose against the idler gear allowing it to slop back?  The power steering never has been super strong, enough to turn the wheels, but never effortless to turn with one finger (that not is my expectation).

Thank you in advance for any advice!

Jay
JVON

  http://www.dropbox.com/sh/s5pcx2qtpzdj4ly/AADqZHoDd0Vah8MB0CTOawuca?dl=0

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JVON Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 04 Dec 2016 Location: Macomb, Il Points: 43	Post Options Post Reply Quote JVON Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: D17-1 NF Steering shimmy Posted: 06 May 2017 at 7:45pm
	Howdy all, I am still working on my D17 series 1 NF, SN 4234. I have been trying to tighten up the slop in the front end. What I have noticed is the following: In all gears forwards and reverse the steering seems fine, EXCEPT when going down the road in Hi 4. The front end will shimmy, wobble, shake, whatever you want to call it when roading. I really don't like this as I want to go on tractor drives someday and would like for it at least not do that. I have new tires up front, repacked the front hub wheel bearings, new seal on the lower pedestal and tightened just about everything else up. I also have noticed the steering knuckle u-joint by the bell housing has some play and I intend to replace that. So today after doing some extensive reading on this site looking for similar problems and issues with D17 steering I thought it had to be in the front steering support. I noticed after I reinstalled the pedestal thinking I had it licked that the spindle will still move forward and back about 1/4" or so and the steering control shaft will not move. I thought the play had to be in the steering support. So I took the pedestal off again and worked on taking the retaining plate out from the bottom just to inspect everything. Drained the oil as it needed changed anyway. Of course I found some sludge buildup everywhere, not really surprised for a 60 year old tractor, and cleaned as much as I could till i ran out of brake clean. I could not see any excessive wear anywhere. The steering control shaft moved fine. The idler gear moved and looked great. The power steering rack looked fine from what I could see. I cleaned the steering sector gear and shaft and stuck it back in the upper cup to see if I could replicate the play. Maybe if it was slightly loose it would wobble, but tight in the upper cup it felt good. Any ideas on what to look for next? It is as good as it gets? I am going to try and upload some pictures. things I noticed- The steering sector gear has some wear where the worm gear meshes together. Nothing excessive for wear. I also did notice a hairline crack in the retainer plate. I don't think it will hurt anything but something to consider. The steering shaft splines look great, even the bearings look great. #madeinUSA I am really stumped on this one. Could I reassemble everything and take a shim out to allow the steering shaft assembly to fit slightly tighter to the worm gear? Is there a gasket to use on the retainer plate or just some 515 sealant? Is it as simple as too much air pressure in the tires? The oil being bad? Could the rack be loose against the idler gear allowing it to slop back? The power steering never has been super strong, enough to turn the wheels, but never effortless to turn with one finger (that not is my expectation). Thank you in advance for any advice! Jay JVON http://www.dropbox.com/sh/s5pcx2qtpzdj4ly/AADqZHoDd0Vah8MB0CTOawuca?dl=0

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Matt MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Silver lake MN Points: 1491	Post Options Post Reply Quote Matt MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 May 2017 at 8:56pm
	Check the coupling on the bottom where the narrow front bolts on. I have had to clean the splines really well then mix up some JB weld and put on the splines top and bottom then put the coupling back on and bolt the front end back on. But do not turn the steering wheel for about 24 hours until the JB weld sets up.
	Unless your are the lead horse the scenery never changes!!

JVON Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 04 Dec 2016 Location: Macomb, Il Points: 43	Post Options Post Reply Quote JVON Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 May 2017 at 9:06pm
	Well I thought about that as well. There is just a little bit of play in the coupler between the steering support and the spindle but I don't think enough to add up to the amount of play I am seeing. I should have taken a video of the movement. Jb weld might be a last resort for now. I have the mud shield off and need to do some more steam cleaning before I get ready to blast and prime. A friend of mine thought possibly all of the combined play between the loose knuckle, steering gearbox and spindle coupler may add up to the amount of shimmy I am seeing.

JVON Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 04 Dec 2016 Location: Macomb, Il Points: 43	Post Options Post Reply Quote JVON Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 May 2017 at 9:07pm
	By the way I couldn't get my picture to upload as I had them set too high of resolution to upload. So I posted them to Dropbox in the link from the original post.

allischalmerguy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Deep River, IA Points: 2893	Post Options Post Reply Quote allischalmerguy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 May 2017 at 9:25pm
	I would suggest,and maybe you did this... Jack up the front of the tractor so the front wheels are off the ground. Make sure the tractor won't fall on you and have someone hold the steering wheel and grab the front wheels and see how much play you have, maybe that won't work with the power steering?? If id it on my Coop with out power steering ...your friend could be right. Just a suggestion. Edited by allischalmerguy - 06 May 2017 at 9:28pm
	It is great being a disciple of Jesus! 1950 WD, 1957 D17...retired in Iowa,

JVON Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 04 Dec 2016 Location: Macomb, Il Points: 43	Post Options Post Reply Quote JVON Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 May 2017 at 9:43pm
	Yup, front end is jacked up at the torque housing and jack stands under the frame rails as a just in case. You can move it back and forth with the engine off and see no movement from the steering control valve. I just thought if it, but did not notice any movement from the steering cylinder. I wonder if it might be the cylinder somehow. I said it earlier, it is a 60 year old tractor. I'm pretty sure the previous owner used it well. The Power director shift collar had to be replaced due to being shot. The exhaust was a gutter pipe. The hitch didn't look like it had moved it quite a while. Clutch pedal has the cross hatch marks to grip your foot worn nearly off and some slop in the pivot. I think it was a feed wagon tractor at one time. But that was nearly ten years ago when I first got it and have come a long way since. Overall it is amuck better machine now. Just needed some TLC.

MACK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664	Post Options Post Reply Quote MACK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 May 2017 at 10:21pm
	A D19nf would do that when they were brand new. We made thin shim and put under o rings in steering valve where you adjust the valve. It helped, but a wide front end was the answer. MACK

Roger (NE) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 14 Oct 2010 Location: Nebraska Points: 186	Post Options Post Reply Quote Roger (NE) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 May 2017 at 8:37am
	Purchased new narrow front D17 in May 1959. By the time we traded it in 1967 it would shimmy in road gear. Just the nature of them.

WD45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: STAYNER,ONTARIO Points: 955	Post Options Post Reply Quote WD45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 May 2017 at 9:25am
	Try running more pressure in one of the front tires. Check and see if this makes a change.
	Fred Dunlop, G,B,CA, WC,WF, 3 WD45`s,gas, diesel and LP,U,D10 series III, D12,D14,D15 SERIES II,D17 Series IV in Gas and Diesel ,D19 GAS and D21,170 185,210 ,220 an I-600 8070 fwd, 716H and 1920H

Pete from IL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Location: Beecher IL. Points: 311	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pete from IL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 May 2017 at 9:35am
	We used to run one tire much lower pressure than the other one on our D17. That did help. I finally changed to a wide front.