D17 with one wire alternator

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   New to the forum, but a long time reader and Allis- Chalmers fan. Currently thinking of buying a D17, but when looking at tractor, owner informed me that it needed new alternator, as it cannot start without charger being applied to battery. When examining alternator, I noticed that it was a one wire version and they can drain battery if engine is not at high enough RPM's. Looking for some advice....
If I purchase tractor should I replace with one wire version or should I install a new 3 wire alternator. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am not real familiar with tractor repair. I worked in an auto repair shop some twenty years ago, but have never worked on an Allis motor. The D 17 is a 4 cylinder gas motor. Thanks for any advice.

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karstengram Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 07 Jul 2015 Location: Indiana Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote karstengram Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: D17 with one wire alternator Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 1:44pm
	New to the forum, but a long time reader and Allis- Chalmers fan. Currently thinking of buying a D17, but when looking at tractor, owner informed me that it needed new alternator, as it cannot start without charger being applied to battery. When examining alternator, I noticed that it was a one wire version and they can drain battery if engine is not at high enough RPM's. Looking for some advice.... If I purchase tractor should I replace with one wire version or should I install a new 3 wire alternator. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am not real familiar with tractor repair. I worked in an auto repair shop some twenty years ago, but have never worked on an Allis motor. The D 17 is a 4 cylinder gas motor. Thanks for any advice.

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Charlie175 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Shenandoah, VA Points: 6366	Post Options Post Reply Quote Charlie175 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 2:04pm
	I'm curious as to how it fit. Did he cut the shroud? I have a 1 wire on my D12 and it does not drain the battery and it starts charging at about 800 rpm.... 3 wire are the more common type for sure
	Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD

Steve in NJ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11925	Post Options Post Reply Quote Steve in NJ Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 2:15pm
	Most one wire Alternators can be changed over to a three wire providing the Alternator is in good condition and can readily be put into service again. If the Alternator is toast, we offer a retrofit kit for the D series Tractors. Its a 3 wire unit which works with the existing wiring on board the Tractor. If your Alternator is good, then we can fix ya up with the wiring only to dial you in. With the D series Tractors, because most of the load is up in the dash area, I move the Alternator's sense wire up to the dash area where is can monitor current usage better. The wiring system gets full power, the Battery is happy, and there is no low voltage on board. Leave the one wire Alts to the Hotrodders. Nothing like a three wire unit. For more info and a look at our retrofit kit, visit our website. Lottsa' good info there to learn. Any questions, just give us a call. Be happy to help ya out... Steve@B&B Website: bb-customcircuits.com BTW, Welcome to the best darn AC Website on the planet! Better known as the "Orange family"..! Edited by Steve in NJ - 07 Jul 2015 at 2:18pm
	39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife

Gerald J. Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gerald J. Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 2:20pm
	Improperly connected the one wire will discharge the battery. Properly connected it won't. And nearly all one wire alternators can be connected as three wire so they charge just above engine idle. The one wire I have on my 4020 takes about 1600 engine RPM to start charging but after its charging is started it charges fine at any engine speed, so long as charging is needed. The gas engine does take power for ignition so until the alternator starts charging it will continue to run the battery down. The three wire alternator connection isn't difficult to do. And there are at least a couple ways to do it. In the classical internal regulator alternators like the S10 that is easy to acquire, there is a big post for the battery connection that is isolated from the works by a gang of diodes so unless a diode or two is bad (and that is a common alternator failure mode) there is no battery load from the alternator when not running or running slow. A single wire connection often hooks a voltage sample wire from that post to one of the spade posts and leaves the other spade post open. For a three wire connection that one to the post is OK, but there are better connections I'll neglect them for now. The other spade post needs to go to the ignition post of the key switch so it only gets power when the key is in the run position. It also needs a diode or a resistor (could be a idiot light) so it doesn't back feed power to the ignition system, otherwise turning the key off won't stop the engine. An alternative for that wire is to find an oil pressure switch with two terminals that closes on pressure rise and add a T to the oil pressure sensor with that switch in the second hole. Then it can be wired with one side to the ignition switch or battery and the other to the regulator excitation on the alternator and it will charge as soon as the engine has a few psi oil pressure and be disconnected when the engine is stopped. I'd say if the 1 wire alternator is running the battery down, its wired incorrectly or has some bad diodes. It is fixable or replaceable, and with the slight bother of goosing the cold engine to get the one wire charging started, either connection works. Gerald J.

Sugarmaker Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8426	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sugarmaker Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 2:45pm
	Buy the tractor. This will probably be the least of your worries! :) Pictures please. Regards, Chris
	D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.

karstengram Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 07 Jul 2015 Location: Indiana Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote karstengram Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 3:19pm
	Thank you to all for the informative replies. I am leaving now to look at it again! I will keep you all updated. Thanks!

Ted J Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18923	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ted J Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 8:02pm
	Welcome from Wisconsin!! I have tractors that have both the 1 and the 3. To be honest, a 3 is a lot better and is easy to install also. Good luck on the purchase!
	"Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17

brettssac Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Location: alabama Points: 60	Post Options Post Reply Quote brettssac Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 8:10pm
	I have used the one wire saddle mount cs130 delco on all of mine with very good luck and no mods to shroud or mount just a 1" spacer and the generator pulley i have a isuzu alternator on the ps diesels with a mod on the back with no mods to tractor
	BX2,IB,WC,D15IG, D15IIDX3,D17DI,IID,IIID,IVD,D19DX3,D21II,HD3,185,AND GOD ONLY KNOWS THE EQUIPMENT

DaveKamp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5969	Post Options Post Reply Quote DaveKamp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jul 2015 at 5:09pm
	I've got an SI-series one-wire on my D17, and also on my WD... they were set up by a neighbor who has an automotive electrical rebuild shop in town. I don't know what all he did to set these up, but they fit under the tinwork with no mod, I devised a different bracket arrangement, and charge (25A) at ilde, with no goosing... IIRC that's equal or better than the original generators could do.
	Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.