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D17 with a JD B grain drill; hydraulic question
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D17SeriesIV View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 Jan 2015
Location: Hartwell, GA
Points: 82 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D17SeriesIV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D17 with a JD B grain drill; hydraulic question
    Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 8:36pm
Hello all! Got my D17 Series II back up and running. My neighbor gave me an old Deere/Van Brunt B model grain drill that also needs some TLC.
When I got it here and figured out how to hook the hydraulics up to the remote, the cylinder on the drill worked suprisingly well. That was about 18 months ago, so I'm assuming I got lucky last time I hooked it up or something because today it wouldn't hit a lick at a black snake.
I have the manual for both the D17 and the drill, but wanted to pick your brains as to what I may be doing wrong, or if there's some tribal knowledge in here on what may be up with that hydraulic cylinder on the drill?
Thanks in advance!
Glad to have the old girl back up and running, still got a long row to hoe before I'm done though

Edited by D17SeriesIV - 04 Sep 2018 at 9:39pm
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MACK View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 8:52pm
What do you mean(won't hit a lick at a black snake) tractor won't start? Cylinder won't work? Or what?       MACK
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D17SeriesIV View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 Jan 2015
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Points: 82 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D17SeriesIV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 9:38pm
When I hook the drills cylinder to the tractor it won't doesn't work. Wondering if I'm hooking the lines up wrong, or if the cylinder in my drill is malfunctioning.
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MACK View Drop Down
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Points: 7664 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 10:25pm
Is hydraulic full of oil? Is foot clutch out? Do the two hydraulic couplers look the same? Both ball or both points? If points, is one shorter than other?       MACK
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D17SeriesIV View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 Jan 2015
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Points: 82 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D17SeriesIV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 8:37am
I got it to work, the lever for the lift arms wasn't locking into the carry position all the way. That little nub that holds it in place is pretty worn. And you were right about the fittings, one is a point. Going to TSC to replace it today.
This morning I'm making some temporary down tubes out of that black water line left over from replacing our foot valve just so I can test it out. Spring for the gear hanger on the right side broke, but an old trampoline spring is holding for now. It's pieced together for sure right now, but it'll make due until I can get the right parts. Thanks Mack!


Edited by D17SeriesIV - 06 Sep 2018 at 8:39am
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Allis dave View Drop Down
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Points: 3015 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 11:13am
Is the cylinder on the drill an Allis cylinder? A D17II should put out 3000PSI or more and a standard cylinder is only rated at 1500-2500PSI depending on the cylinder. You could blow the cylinder apart after awhile

Edited by Allis dave - 06 Sep 2018 at 11:13am
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Ky.Allis View Drop Down
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Points: 1022 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ky.Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 5:10pm
I have seen on this site many times where a D17(and other models) would or could blow a Hyd. cylinder apart if it wasn't one of the old AC cylinders. I have a D17 ser.3 and have used a regular 3x8 cylinder for years and years on disc harrows,haybines,hay tedders and just about anything you can imagine and never ever had a problem. Is this a myth someone started years ago or can it really happen?
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D17SeriesIV View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 Jan 2015
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Points: 82 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D17SeriesIV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 6:34pm
The cylinder on the drill is an unknown. It isn't the stock option. The neighbor I got it from is more of an "I'll make it work" type guy. I have a 3 bottom plow he loaned me a few years ago that is 2 different old Oliver plows and one JD plow welded together pretty much.
I did replace the point connector on the drill with a standard today, now the old standard end is leaking.
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Gary Burnett View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Ky.Allis Ky.Allis wrote:

I have seen on this site many times where a D17(and other models) would or could blow a Hyd. cylinder apart if it wasn't one of the old AC cylinders. I have a D17 ser.3 and have used a regular 3x8 cylinder for years and years on disc harrows,haybines,hay tedders and just about anything you can imagine and never ever had a problem. Is this a myth someone started years ago or can it really happen?


I've used regular cylinders with AC tractors with no problem,have one on a NH 456 mower
I'm using now pulling it with a D15.
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Tbone95 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Ky.Allis Ky.Allis wrote:

I have seen on this site many times where a D17(and other models) would or could blow a Hyd. cylinder apart if it wasn't one of the old AC cylinders. I have a D17 ser.3 and have used a regular 3x8 cylinder for years and years on disc harrows,haybines,hay tedders and just about anything you can imagine and never ever had a problem. Is this a myth someone started years ago or can it really happen?
Older Allis tractors are "high pressure low volume" and the other brands are "low pressure high volume". So an Allis cylinder is designed to withstand the pressure of an Allis tractor, and incidentally will lift quite fast if used on another tractor.  Vice versa, another brand cylinder will move slow on an Allis tractor and will not lift as much.  (Relatively speaking, typical size for the implement, obviously different sizes are available)
 
That being said, the pressure in a cylinder is still only what's required to lift the load, which on most implements is way under max pressure the tractor can deliver.  Therefore, a case where you're trying to lift something the cylinder can't and the system develops max pressure is when a cylinder might rupture.  There's the very brief spike at the end of stroke also.
 
THAT being said, cylinders are designed and built with a "factor of safety" where burst pressure is higher than rated pressure.
 
So, is it a myth?  No.  Can it happen?  Yes.  But as your observations show, it's not common.
 
 
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Points: 22824 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 3:36pm
About the only way to hurt any hydraulic cylinder with a High pressure Allis hydraulic system, is to run it to the end of the stroke and let the pump hammer away at it. That is also kinda hard to do when the Allis had a relief valve that will dump at whatever pressure it is set for.
 The isn't a cylinder made that will blow up under it's rated pressure, probably more like 2 to 3 times their rated pressure, or there would be lawsuits going on all over the country.
 
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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