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D12 Restoration
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bincitybandit View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Aug 2011
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    Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 2:15pm
I am in the process of a restoring a D12.

It is a 1960 model, S/N 2272.  I am a bit conflicted as to which paint color to use.

According to Swinford's book, S/N 1950 and up should be P.O. #2 with cream grille and wheels.

My tractor has been repainted once by a previous owner that used what seems to be P.O. #2 and has the rims painted silver.  While doing the body work, as I get down to the original color, it sure looks like P.O. #1 to me.  I can't find any remnants of any cream color anywhere on the tractor.  

Any thoughts on what I which paint scheme I should use?  Go with the info in the Swinford book?  I really don't have a preference, I just want it to be correct.


Edited by bincitybandit - 17 Dec 2019 at 5:17pm
ALLIS: B, WC, G, G, D10, D12, D14, D14(NF), D15, D17, D17(NF), D19, D21, D21
MINNEAPOLIS MOLINE: U, U, U(NF), GB
JOHN DEERE: L
FORD: 871 Select-O-Speed
CASE: 600 Combine
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Alvin M View Drop Down
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Go To DJS Tractor Parts Click On Allis Chalmers Paint Guide
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Originally posted by Alvin M Alvin M wrote:

Go To DJS Tractor Parts Click On Allis Chalmers Paint Guide

Thanks, that is a good reference that I hadn't noticed before!

Unfortunately that really didn't help me make my decision though.  It seems the general thought is that anything AFTER 1960 should be P.O. #2.  At least that has always been my understanding until reading about the D10 & D12 in Swinford's book, which indicates the switch was actually made after S/N 1950.

I'm just gonna roll with the P.0. #2 & Cream since that is what his book says.  I did finally find some old Cream color on the bottom of the seat pan.
ALLIS: B, WC, G, G, D10, D12, D14, D14(NF), D15, D17, D17(NF), D19, D21, D21
MINNEAPOLIS MOLINE: U, U, U(NF), GB
JOHN DEERE: L
FORD: 871 Select-O-Speed
CASE: 600 Combine
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Points: 8167 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 4:58pm
We need pictures!!:)
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Gary View Drop Down
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Points: 5171 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 8:27am

D-10 and D-12 'may have changed' to the new colour during 1961 production with the start of the Series II.

Gary

…………………………………………………

I believe D-17 changed to the new colour during 1960 with the start of the Series II

Edited by Gary - 11 Dec 2019 at 8:33am
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Calvin Schmidt View Drop Down
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Points: 4515 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 6:39am
The D-10/12 paint info is a but muddy in that serial number range and time period. The D-15 was the first tractor to be painted PO 2. About the same time what was the black bar grill D-10/12 had the grill with the three bars painted cream and no doubt PO 2 on the tractor. I've been through the parts books and all the info that I can find and still don't have a definite serial number when the paint change was made. One clue might be if it has a black steering wheel it was PO 1 and a cream steering wheel it was PO 2.   
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Anyone know what other Models of Tractors might have been assembled on the same Production Line as D-10 / D-12 during the 1960 - 1961 era.

I expect they all would have been painted the same shade.

Gary
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Well, now I am looking for the rim clamps for the spin-out wheels on this tractor.  I broke the head off of two of them while trying to disassemble.  Can't seem to find any online with the eccentric adjuster.
ALLIS: B, WC, G, G, D10, D12, D14, D14(NF), D15, D17, D17(NF), D19, D21, D21
MINNEAPOLIS MOLINE: U, U, U(NF), GB
JOHN DEERE: L
FORD: 871 Select-O-Speed
CASE: 600 Combine
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If you still have more to remove, take them off the wheel centers by removing the two bolts.   Folks have a lot of different opinions as to how to free the locks up.  I have a gallon can and soak them in PB Blaster for three or four weeks.  They will usually turn freely after that.  They are the same as a CA.  I am sure someone on the Forum will have them.   I have some,  but have to take them off and it is cold right now.   
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Originally posted by bincitybandit bincitybandit wrote:

Well, now I am looking for the rim clamps for the spin-out wheels on this tractor.  I broke the head off of two of them while trying to disassemble.  Can't seem to find any online with the eccentric adjuster.

Don't try to move them on the tractor, best  to remove the rim from axle, then take the clamp holding bolts outta all the clamps, and give the rim a whack, with the BFH.

As for fixing the clamps, themselves (freeing them up) heat is your friend, and on the 2 that you broke, remember these are not bolts, they are cams. Trick is to hammer the heads in as far as possible, and pry out the snap ring, then punch them out from behind...

Here is Dennis' excellent video, on the subject...Wink

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I have a D12 that I think is sn2060 or so and its PO1 and original, I could check to be sure, but I know its later than 1950
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I've got the broken ones soaking in a bucket of penetrating oil.  I decided to just try to get them freed up, put one on each wheel, and use a hammer and chisel to lock them in place when I reassemble.  It's just a parade tractor, so I doubt I will ever have to get them off again.

Regarding my color concerns, this tractor was definitely never PO #2.  I'm wondering if it got caught up in the transition when Allis switched the paint color.  I'm still going to paint it #2 and Cream, since that is what the Swinford book says it should have been, and maybe even moreso because I have a whole bunch of PO #2 sitting on the shelf.  
ALLIS: B, WC, G, G, D10, D12, D14, D14(NF), D15, D17, D17(NF), D19, D21, D21
MINNEAPOLIS MOLINE: U, U, U(NF), GB
JOHN DEERE: L
FORD: 871 Select-O-Speed
CASE: 600 Combine
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Points: 125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bincitybandit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2019 at 11:38am

I forgot to take a "before" picture of course prior to removing the sheet metal.
ALLIS: B, WC, G, G, D10, D12, D14, D14(NF), D15, D17, D17(NF), D19, D21, D21
MINNEAPOLIS MOLINE: U, U, U(NF), GB
JOHN DEERE: L
FORD: 871 Select-O-Speed
CASE: 600 Combine
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Hope to get some primer & paint on after Christmas..........
ALLIS: B, WC, G, G, D10, D12, D14, D14(NF), D15, D17, D17(NF), D19, D21, D21
MINNEAPOLIS MOLINE: U, U, U(NF), GB
JOHN DEERE: L
FORD: 871 Select-O-Speed
CASE: 600 Combine
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bincity,
Your going to have a very nice looking tractor! Looks like professional paint booth??
Thanks for posting the pictures! I think it helps get all of us excited about seeing these come back to life with new parts and new paint!
Yous shop looks great! That rear and front rubber looks almost new! 
Makes me think about getting the D17 refurbed!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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I have a tad later s/n, 2460 (1960) that had original paint per the PO.
Advised his dad had bought it new and confirmed it had never been painted as I only found yellow primer under the PO2 when heat pressure washed before tear down.
Decals on hood panel sides originally (no rivet holes found when sand blasted) but going back with aluminum name plates that reportedly started in 1961.
There will always be many debates based on some very good books as to what started when on different A-C models but nothing is 100% certain.
Mine is factory 3-pt. with live pto and live hydraulics although I have seen numerous comments that the live hyd. and pto did not come along until the G149 engine starting with tractor s/n 3001.
Mine has the 138 engine.
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Points: 125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bincitybandit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 5:03pm
Got the primer on right after New Year's.  Used an epoxy primer, and didn't care for it all.  Won't be using it again!
ALLIS: B, WC, G, G, D10, D12, D14, D14(NF), D15, D17, D17(NF), D19, D21, D21
MINNEAPOLIS MOLINE: U, U, U(NF), GB
JOHN DEERE: L
FORD: 871 Select-O-Speed
CASE: 600 Combine
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Put the color on a week ago.........




Started re-assembly a couple nights ago.  Hope to have it finished up by the end of next week.

Just got my new grille from Pfouts Family Farm, and it looks great!  Just need to put some color on that next.  

The end is in sight!
ALLIS: B, WC, G, G, D10, D12, D14, D14(NF), D15, D17, D17(NF), D19, D21, D21
MINNEAPOLIS MOLINE: U, U, U(NF), GB
JOHN DEERE: L
FORD: 871 Select-O-Speed
CASE: 600 Combine
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bincity,
Thanks for the update. Your going to have a nice looking fresh tractor.
Did you change primer?
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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That's going to be a very nice looking tractor. Makes me want to start on my D12's. Gotta finish 2 other projects first.
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[QUOTE=bincitybandit]Well, now I am looking for the rim clamps for the spin-out wheels on this tractor.  I broke the head off of two of them while trying to disassemble.  Can't seem to find any online with the eccentric adjuster.[/QUOTE

If you haven't found any of the square head eccentrics, I have some available. 
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Have a set of 4 rim clamps; freed up and repainted white. You can have all 4 or just a few. Came off a D14. Missing the pieces that go between the rail and the clamp. PM me if interested.
What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers.
Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2.
With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC
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