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D10 Input Shaft Sleeve Issues

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seanb61 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 4:23pm
Hey folks, I acquired a 1961 series I D10 last week. I was told that the last time it was running ~5 years ago, the clutch was squealing, so it was parked. So the first thing I've done is order a clutch kit, and split the tractor. Well, it appears the issue is not with the clutch itself, but rather the sleeve that the input shaft goes through, and the throwout bearing carrier rides on. If you zoom in on the image below, you will see what I mean. 

I don't have a parts manual for this tractor, so I don't know what this part is called, or if it is even available. Can any of you help me with this? If it is not a part that can be sourced from anywhere, what would be the best way of fixing it? And lastly, what could have caused the problem? Thanks for any assistance with this issue. 


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Larry in NC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry in NC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 4:38pm
That part is the shifter that pushes the throw out bearing.  Part #208407
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanb61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 4:41pm
Thanks, but not quite. It is stationary, the throwout bearing carrier (208407) moves back and forth on it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry in NC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 7:37pm
Shifter tube 208414.  I think this part is the same for B C CA D10 D12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 9:47pm
Larry listed the part numbers #10 and 14





Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanb61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 10:33pm
Thank you Larry and Steve. Any ideas where to source one of those? A Google search of the part number doesn't come up with anything unfortunately. As of right now I am figuring on grinding down the end and smoothing it back out, but replacement would be best if the part can be found somewhere. 

Also I haven't found the reason for why this happened, and would certainly like to prevent future issues. The original paint was still on all the fasteners, so I would gather that this is the first time this tractor has been split which rules out an aftermarket clutch causing a problem with incorrect clearances. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 10:40pm
Is the throw-out bearing retainer free to move on that sleeve. If not, it appears that the throw-out bearing retainer has pulled sleeve from housing and grinding it against clutch disc hub when pedal was depressed.. JMHO, Tracy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanb61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 11:22pm
Tracy, yes it does seem to move freely when the pedal is operated. However, it very well could have bound up at some point in the past and pushed the sleeve forward. I'll have to take it apart further to determine if the sleeve shows any indication of having moved, and if there are any signs of the throw out bearing carrier having bound up on it. I am assuming that the sleeve is not pinned in place, but rather a press fit into the bell housing. Thank you for pointing out that possibility, I will follow up soon as I am able to get back on the project. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 6:36pm
TUBE does not appear to be an aftermarket item... It does show up at various DEALERS, but they are pretty proud of it, going by the price... You do realize that part numbers have 8 digits these days, so you have to add a 70 - to the front of 208414..







Edited by steve(ill) - 19 Sep 2022 at 6:37pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 7:21pm
Post a pic of the pressure plate and tranny side of clutch disc. We can tell more from those pic. Thanks Tracy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanb61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 8:59pm
Steve, thank you for that - I did not know about putting the 70 in front of the part numbers. I'll have to see if there is a dealer around my area that can source parts. Didn't think that anything would be available through dealers anymore. I've had plenty of experience with red, blue, green and other tractors, but this is my first time with an orange tractor, so there is still plenty to learn. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanb61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 9:01pm
Tracy, here is a picture of the pressure plate side of things. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 9:19pm
Welcome to the forum. Yes the new numbering is 8 digits. Depends on the original number you put a 7 or 70 to make 8 digits. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 9:38pm
It looks like the sleeve has rubbed the clutch hub. Fingers look really low on the pressure plate. I wonder if the clutch is correct in thickness and hub correct for D10-12.Can you show us clutch pedal rod where it goes to clutch fork, where it screws into nut.Has rod been lengthened? If the sleeve is correct for tractor and has not moved, this is probably your problem. HTH Tracy

Edited by Tracy Martin TN - 19 Sep 2022 at 9:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 9:39pm
Does those parts fit D14 tractor or just the auxiliary engine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanb61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 10:12pm
Mike, I have no idea on parts fitting with a D14, this D10 is the first Allis I've had in the shop. 

Tracy, I will try and grab a picture of the rod tomorrow. I saw no indication of tools having been used on the bolt heads prior to me splitting the tractor, and the paint is original which leads me to assume that the clutch in there is the one that it left factory with. But I could be wrong on that. It is a very nice tractor overall for the age having been with one family its entire life prior to me. I included a picture below from when I first got it off my trailer and into the shop a week ago. I still need to pull the throwout bearing carrier and see if it moved the sleeve or not, there just wasn't enough time today for me to get around to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 10:46pm
That is a real nice looking tractor. Definitely worth the trouble to fix correctly!  Tracy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanb61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 7:42pm
Here's a picture of the parts now that they are out of the tractor. The sleeve came out without a fight. The rod that operates the fork was only threaded in about 1/4", just the very end of it, not much thread engagement. 

I think the sleeve can stand to loose a bit of material and still function well enough since the throwout bearing carrier is long enough that it can overhang the end of the sleeve if it gets that far and still pull back inwards without binding. So I am going to try just cutting off the bad portion of the sleeve, and then dressing it with a file and sandpaper. See if that works before springing for a replacement. Will use permatex sleeve retainer when reinstalling so that it won't pull out of the housing. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 8:05pm
If it only had that many threads into nut, I think the clutch and pressure are wrong. Looks like the fingers are way to low on pressure plate. Someone adjust the clutch pedal rod to try to  overcome the low fingers. What causes this is TOO thick a clutch disc and sometimes TOO thick a pressure plate. What is the stand up height of the pressure plate fingers with it bolted together? Post a pic of the pressure plate from the side with fingers showing. The sleeve that throw out bearing carrier rides on should not be free. Rick Corder can get you straightened out on the clutch problem. Not sure he still does any, but he can explain what is wrong, and how to correct it.That sleeve is an easy find to get, don't cut any corners inside the bell housing, it will bite you everytime! This is what I think it is. JMHO, Tracy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 8:22pm
If someone can confirm that 208407 and 208414 doesn’t fit d14 tractor and just the auxiliary engine. I could help you with them, nos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanb61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 9:01pm
Tracy, I called up the Agco dealer today, and they were able to look up the part number. But it is out of production and there is no stock at other dealers that they are able to get. And the only one I can find looking online is the one that Steve posted above, that is Canada. So it doesn't look like it is going to be an easy find at all to replace. 

Mike, let me know if you are able to find any information about whether the one you have will work for your application or not, if it won't work for you then I would certainly like to purchase from you. Thanks. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 8:22am
I looked at my model C clutch through the access port. Looks the same.
That throw out bearing carrier, is that a grease fitting on it?
Mine has a 1/8 pipe plug. Dry as a bone, no rust, and moving freely.
Wondering if I should replace it with grease fitting, and grease it.

I see you think it is original. But maybe not. They had a series II D10.
The input shaft and pilot bearing were different. Transmission input shaft
was hollow with a pto drive shaft running through it to operate the rear hydraulic pump and independent PTO clutch. So who knows if things are mixed up. Maybe the
clutch disk is flipped 180. Be cautious.
I would say buy that tube, $128cad is not that bad for a rare part.
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