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Counterweighted crank

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Ihateillinoisnazis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

the crank wither it has counterweights to absorb bad frequencies by its mass or uses (overlap ) larger journals to stiffen and though attenuation rid bad frequencys isnt going to make it pull tweenty feet further . if you had have asked a realistic question I would have taken the time to answere.  Hp is what makes it pull further and a crank absorbing motion due to its mass isnt going to make the hp one that isnt absorbing motion but reacting to does.



Wow, is all I have to say to this. Epic post hahahaha, where do you come up with this nonsense?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wi50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by wi50 wi50 wrote:

Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Spunkster, why don't you explain to us why a 426 AC crank has no counterweight? Why a JD has weights on all and why an IH 400 series has weights on 4 of the 6 cylinders? Of the 3 why is the non weighted AC crank the most likely to fail? Cummins and Cat are weighted.

Or better yet why pullers need to add the weights for durability?
 
 
 
Well I'm not the spunkster, he can't answer and at least admitted it this time before makeing up some bs.  The non weighted ones fail the most..... the rest of the block is just plain strong enough to transfer the loads.  It's "forced" into being balanced, somewhere down the line on the crank.
 
But the weighted cranks help, the load is transfered across the crank rather than to another cylinder somewhere down the line. 
 
If you look at some cranks that are weighted on all the cylinders, the weights oppose the crankpin by180*.  The ones weiighted on 4 of the 6 cylinders have the weights clocked slightly off on some of the crankpins, some of the weights are 180* off the crankpin and some are clocked differently.  1 weight of the pair for one cylinder will be 180* off and the other weight for that cylinder will be clocked to help the non weighted cylinders on those cranks.
 
Spankey can look at the fireing orders, but it doesn't make any difference.  Gas, diesel, same difference.
 
Additional weight is added on these high RPM pulling cranks to hopefully completly nutralize the rod and piston unit, on each throw with minimal transfer elsewhere in the rotating assembly.  It's got enough stress on it. 
 
Stock cranks will run up pretty fast but will eventually throw themselves apart,  we all know that.  Weighted ones will run faster, and ones with all cylinders counterweighted and added weights will run untill the lifters spit out the block or the rod bolts pull.
 
Wild, Bill, just plain stock main caps in the block, decked and a 1" thick alumnium girdle with a block between the girdle and plate. 
 
 
The explanation Cranky gave is pretty much the same as this, that is the forces are transfered "across" rather than "through" the crank somewhere down the line to be nutralized.  Thus keeping the main bearings in the block and the crank intact.  The purpose isn't for balance, the engine is already balanced.  The purpose is to keep the engine togather.  It's easier on the crankshaft to "pull" or transfer the stress across the throw from the crankpin to the weight, rather than transfer it down the line somewhere through the mains.
 
It doesn't matter if it's a steam engine,  W201 4 cy Allis, or a 40,000 HP engine lugging allong in a ship. 
 
I'm not sure what it is that "jealous mitch" doesn't understand, but when he gets to rev an engine up someday he'll understand the importance of reduceing stress on the block.  As the RPM increases, the stress on the block will also increase.  Counterweights reduce the stress on the block.
 
I can't say that there is one single person out there in the winners circle with a non counterweighted crankshaft in any of these super stock engines.  None.  Plain and simple.  The cranks are fine without counterweights at 2000 RPM in the field, at 2500 RPM on the road, and at 5000 RPM for a verry short time duration on the pulling track.  Though try and wing one any harder and it's impossiable, the crank will whip, flex, vibrate untill it breaks itself when the  main caps pull off the block.
 
Take the stock 426 Allis, anyone pushing one hard has a weighted crank.  Wasn't needed in the field.  They tried to push it on the pulling track and after some engine damage they got a weighted crank. 
 
 
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 2:35pm
Counterweights absorb transient torque by there mass which negatively effects overall torque. A builder can achieve the same desired outcome without utilizing coumterweights by using the methods I mentioned and cranky summarized with more torque being measured at the flywheel than is absorbed by heavier mass counterweights. the counterweights inertia itself can impart twisting loads on the shaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Counterweights absorb transient torque by there mass which negatively effects overall torque. A builder can achieve the same desired outcome without utilizing coumterweights by using the methods I mentioned and cranky summarized with more torque being measured at the flywheel than is absorbed by heavier mass counterweights. the counterweights inertia itself can impart twisting loads on the shaft.



Well thank The Lord they don't use counter weights in modern engines..........    Silly engine builders must be doing It all wrong. It's so fastenating how everyone in the industry is doing the opposite thing you claim, yet you're the only one doing it the "right" way...   Coincidence as to why your 's junk....? I think not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by Ihateillinoisnazis Ihateillinoisnazis wrote:

Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Counterweights absorb transient torque by there mass which negatively effects overall torque. A builder can achieve the same desired outcome without utilizing coumterweights by using the methods I mentioned and cranky summarized with more torque being measured at the flywheel than is absorbed by heavier mass counterweights. the counterweights inertia itself can impart twisting loads on the shaft.



Well thank The Lord they don't use counter weights in modern engines..........    Silly engine builders must be doing It all wrong. It's so fastenating how everyone in the industry is doing the opposite thing you claim, yet you're the only one doing it the "right" way...   Coincidence as to why your 's junk....? I think not.
Thats why counterweights are being reduced and made more compact . Counterweights are primarly used to balance the crank interanally in the automotive realm.  In the automotive industry they are still cranks without counterweights being ran at engine speeds that a pulling tractor could only dream of seeing. I have never broke a crank once I went to the overlap . Its amazing what .100 in journal size does to stiffen up a crankshaft

Edited by mlpankey - 25 Feb 2013 at 2:48pm
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Ihateillinoisnazis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 3:06pm
Or is it because of modern materials allowing manufacturers to build engine with lighter stronger rotating assembly's than ever before?? hmm a nobel thought. Modern engines aren't antique tractors spunky.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 5:25pm
Mitch, you put together a 504 cube light superstock tractor, any brand you want, built per ntpa rules, if you can beat peissig, Lynn, Blackburn, and even Marty, for a season with no counterweight on your crank ill pay for a tv commercial on RFD TV promoting your shop and you as the greatest builder ever!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrgoodwrench Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 5:49pm
you nailed it larry...it's a question of credability and pankey has none...if he could prove that he can keep an engine together and win we would all be willing to listen to any building theory
There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 6:43pm
Its amasing that some dont even pedall pull but are creditable. Heavier mass takes more to mkve you would think pullers would know that. But that means they pull which most on here xont. You want to free up torque and horsepower lighte thing up instead of making it heavie.r .all you counterweght nuts needs to explkre what a .100 larger journal does cor you

Edited by mlpankey - 25 Feb 2013 at 7:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 7:12pm
No one's dumb enough to use a 1.75 rod journal other than pankey. They worked in a 20 hp tractor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 7:20pm
Nascar. No ones dumb enough to weld counterweights onto a stock crank for a 15 to 3000 hp engine when they build billet cranks daily if they were really worried with reliability . 1.75 journal ran 5 pulling seasons. Pretty reliable wouldnt you say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Nascar. No ones dumb enough to weld counterweights onto a stock crank for a 15 to 3000 hp engine when they build billet cranks daily if they were really worried with reliability .


You continue to prove to the world, you are the village idiot. 

The best thing you could do is fold up and go away.   ...Just like the rods in your engine did. 
 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 7:52pm
Heres some ceditable knoweldge. The first stroker 226 crank we did was 5 3/4 stroke with a 1.75 rod journal it had 11.1 compression ran top 4 .it didnt have straps or main girdles just stock main caps. The crank broke in august of the fifth season right behind the number four rod. We then did a 5.77 stroke 2 inch rod journal it never broke .never had anything but stock main caps and 14.1 compression. We then did a 6 inch stroke. With 1.88 journal crank never broke but it did have a billet center main cap the other two were stock. Those cranks had a stronger wire used in the journal and a 40.rockwell in radius so the crank could flex. When welded all the way with a 50 rockwell the crank would be cracked after first few runs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 7:58pm
Ps a ceankshaft with a little imbalance will try to jump out of our dynamic crank.balancer when spun to 5 grand.l

Edited by mlpankey - 25 Feb 2013 at 8:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 8:28pm
You mean to say the engine you bought from Taylor that came from Tarbil. Otherwise why are you looking for someone to stroke a crankshaft and giveing thanks in those linked threads that others previously posted.

The only "we" in your shop is you and Benjamin Franklin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2013 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Nascar. No ones dumb enough to weld counterweights onto a stock crank for a 15 to 3000 hp engine when they build billet cranks daily if they were really worried with reliability . 1.75 journal ran 5 pulling seasons. Pretty reliable wouldnt you say.



When you buy a new billet crank from a place such as riverside for a motor such as a light ss , it has been machined with the counterweight in it hot shot. And thats nice of you to call fellow forum members like the Domann family dumb, they welded on counterweight for years on the hurricane allis cranks. Brice Terry with the hy strung d21 welded on counterweights! But thats right, someone better tell Bryan Conner not to do that on Brices motor anymore since its obviously not working!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 1:21am
Yo daffey duck, your lies are comeing full circle to bite you in the beak. Wi posted some pics of a really hacked up poor lookin crank of yours in a different thread. You gave some explanation of it, and now the same crank is from "your shop" in this thread. To bad you boned Kendak on that piece of junk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 12:41pm
no need to do it if you make the journals large enough unless you need a way to balance the crank internally cause your opposed to doing it externally . No one yet has said how many cranks they lost before doing it vs after doing it to promote it . the only promotion thus far is monkey sees monkey do

Edited by mlpankey - 26 Feb 2013 at 12:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

no need to do it if you make the journals large enough unless you need a way to balance the crank internally cause your opposed to doing it externally . No one yet has said how many cranks they lost before doing it vs after doing it to promote it . the only promotion thus far is monkey sees monkey do




Keith Haney runs a 426 with a German ac crank, thats a semi weighted crank at best, anything over 4500 rpms and it will basically start to fall apart. The guys with the weight added ac cranks will turn in excess of 6000 rpms with no problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 1:13pm
Your world of naturally aspirated antique gas engines does not overlap with high rpm, high boost pressure superstock type engines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Larry W. Larry W. wrote:

Your world of naturally aspirated antique gas engines does not overlap with high rpm, high boost pressure superstock type engines.


Pankey's world does not overlap with reality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glockhead SWMI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Ihateillinoisnazis Ihateillinoisnazis wrote:

Originally posted by Larry W. Larry W. wrote:

Your world of naturally aspirated antique gas engines does not overlap with high rpm, high boost pressure superstock type engines.


Pankey's world does not overlap with reality.


But his sentences run on forever!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by Glockhead SWMI Glockhead SWMI wrote:


Originally posted by Ihateillinoisnazis Ihateillinoisnazis wrote:

Originally posted by Larry W. Larry W. wrote:

Your world of naturally aspirated antique gas engines does not overlap with high rpm, high boost pressure superstock type engines.


Pankey's world does not overlap with reality.


But his sentences run on forever!
<div id="lx_inz" style="visibility: ; display:none;">



Hahah so true!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Yo daffey duck, your lies are comeing full circle to bite you in the beak. Wi posted some pics of a really hacked up poor lookin crank of yours in a different thread. You gave some explanation of it, and now the same crank is from "your shop" in this thread. To bad you boned Kendak on that piece of junk.

And he asked why he has no credibility? Haha good one Rod,  that engine changes builders with the day same as most all his other stories change with the day. Want credibility Pank? tell the truth, or least the same lie every week and credit your sources instead of being a  plagiarizer. 

Pank just doesn't seem to get it, the weights are so the engine lives yet all he talks is HP loss.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

. the only promotion thus far is monkey sees monkey do

The truth in a post!! Why I'll be,,,

Yesiree while Marty prepares for another season with his LSS all you post is about is no counterweights because thats what others use,, Yup Monkey see Monkey do, wanna banana Pank, Haha!!

All the electric you use posting 275 times a day would half pay for somebody to build you an engine for 2013.


Edited by Butch(OH) - 26 Feb 2013 at 4:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 5:09pm
Panky claims he has a shop where he builds strokers. I wonder why this is laying around when he takes pictures.

http://www.ae-ta.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC200Puller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 7:32pm
LOL ! End of story!Thumbs UpLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 6:36pm
thats the box that i shiped a tractor crank i sold off into . The automotive aftermarket is cheaper and better. heres a picture of a bottom end that has been pulled longer than marty been through puberty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 6:38pm
a 400ci  scat crank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 6:39pm
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