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Counterweighted crank

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wi50 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 5:33pm
Crank came back from getting skim ground for additional oil clearance and I'm just about ready to assemble the super stock short block assembly. The chassis is comeing allong and I'm almost done with the cylinder head and manifolding.  Going to be building turbo setup and plumbing shortly.  Here's a few pics of a counterweighted crank for those of you who have never seen one.  Weight added to the existing counterweights and cyl 2 and cyl 5 have a complete weight added offset to balance the rod and piston assembly.
 
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:22pm
What bob weight is the counter weights engineered for.welds still ugly aas ever.its amazing how much work a person will do who xoesnt understand four inline cylinder balancing .

Edited by mlpankey - 18 Feb 2013 at 6:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:28pm
Sure pank, and your superstock is where.............
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didn't take long for the local clown to speak up 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

What bob weight is the counter weights engineered for.welds still ugly aas ever.its amazing how much work a person will do who xoesnt understand four inline cylinder balancing .

Even more amazing is the fact you have finally started to use the period key. Unfortunately doing that has apparently blown a couple cells and caused to to forget to use the space key. 

PleasegobacktonotusingaperiodasnothavinganyspacesandnocapitollettersmakesyourpostshardtoreadandevenmorestupidthanyoualreadyareOK?thanksinadvance.


Edited by Butch(OH) - 18 Feb 2013 at 6:40pm
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:44pm
If a guy wants to make a 4 cylinder crank with the journals less than. 180 degrees apart then he needs counterweights.talking about a timing nightmare.

Edited by mlpankey - 18 Feb 2013 at 6:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC200Puller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:51pm
Well lets see ur crankshaft work panky spanky , I'm sure I have nicer ones in the junk than you could build. What a moron!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 7:01pm
Yet another who doesnt understand balancing a four cylinder and trying to apply rules for a 90 degree v8 to a 180 degree 4 banger. I see why so many superstockers buy engines to run
Before you go to a snake oil salesman cause youve got to have one research this. 4 cylinder cranks are mechanically balanced by the two opposing pistons. The only way they arent balanced is in high rpms causing second imbalanes issues. Automotive engineers realised this and also realized that counterweights did nothing for this second imbalance and engineered balance shafts to counteract second imbalnce

Edited by mlpankey - 18 Feb 2013 at 7:15pm
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BLAH BLAH BLAH  !!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradley6874 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 8:11pm
What 4 cylinder crank has a number 5 cylinder spanky get some glasses and find the shut up button on you or computer wi nice work keep the info coming
You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Looks good WI. Keep up the good work.

Edited by O.P.S. Heads - 19 Feb 2013 at 8:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 8:41pm
All you bench racing boys should at least read wikepedia . a inline six cylinder is in mechanical balance and counteracts second imbalance by its design of cylinder arrangement. snakeoil salesman work hard to impress the shade tree farm mechanics. Its your farm money spend it how you choose .  

Edited by mlpankey - 18 Feb 2013 at 8:43pm
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Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Yet another who doesnt understand balancing a four cylinder and trying to apply rules for a 90 degree v8 to a 180 degree 4 banger. I see why so many superstockers buy engines to run
Before you go to a snake oil salesman cause youve got to have one research this. 4 cylinder cranks are mechanically balanced by the two opposing pistons. The only way they arent balanced is in high rpms causing second imbalanes issues. Automotive engineers realised this and also realized that counterweights did nothing for this second imbalance and engineered balance shafts to counteract second imbalnce
 
Before you go rutting around with your feathers fluffed you should understand that this is a 6 cylinder engine. That's 2 more then 4. Maybe this will help, say you have 4 apples, you pick 2 more off the tree and put them in the basket, how many are now in the basket????
 
Looking good Marty, cant wait to see it run! Or check it out when a bring a different head over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 4:19am
Spunkster, why don't you explain to us why a 426 AC crank has no counterweight? Why a JD has weights on all and why an IH 400 series has weights on 4 of the 6 cylinders? Of the 3 why is the non weighted AC crank the most likely to fail? Cummins and Cat are weighted.

Or better yet why pullers need to add the weights for durability?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 7:51am
Originally posted by Carl(NWWI) Carl(NWWI) wrote:

Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Yet another who doesnt understand balancing a four cylinder and trying to apply rules for a 90 degree v8 to a 180 degree 4 banger. I see why so many superstockers buy engines to run
Before you go to a snake oil salesman cause youve got to have one research this. 4 cylinder cranks are mechanically balanced by the two opposing pistons. The only way they arent balanced is in high rpms causing second imbalanes issues. Automotive engineers realised this and also realized that counterweights did nothing for this second imbalance and engineered balance shafts to counteract second imbalnce
 
Before you go rutting around with your feathers fluffed you should understand that this is a 6 cylinder engine. That's 2 more then 4. Maybe this will help, say you have 4 apples, you pick 2 more off the tree and put them in the basket, how many are now in the basket????All you bench racing boys should at least read wikepedia . a inline six cylinder is in mechanical balance and counteracts second imbalance by its design of cylinder arrangement. snakeoil salesman work hard to impress the shade tree farm mechanics. Its your farm money spend it how you choose .  

 
Looking good Marty, cant wait to see it run! Or check it out when a bring a different head over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 7:58am
Suppose this thread is going to turn into the same thing as the connecting rod thread, 10 pages of BS
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 8:38am
Hahahah Wi thanks for starting another epic post. Spunkalot, do you comprehend anything?? When Wi talks about cylinders two and FIVE, It isn't a four cylinder Alice anymore. Once again you exhibit that your a legend in your own mind.

Got any pictures of spanks cranks?


Can't wait to see the super run this year Wi!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 8:59am
Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Spunkster, why don't you explain to us why a 426 AC crank has no counterweight? Why a JD has weights on all and why an IH 400 series has weights on 4 of the 6 cylinders? Of the 3 why is the non weighted AC crank the most likely to fail? Cummins and Cat are weighted.

Or better yet why pullers need to add the weights for durability?
I havent researched it thoroughly but my start on research would be on if there was any difference in firing orders of differing brands of engines to crank design. firing order can change torsional loads and lessen vibration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 9:20am
Good luck pank. You can make something up, but the fireing order and crank layout all have something in common. Waste your time though, better than trying to pollute this forum.


Speaking of bench racers I opened up my copy of The Puller magazine. You know the one, the national magazine from NTPA. WI50's picture in there a couple times on the podium for state and regional points. I squinted and didn't see yours pank.

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Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Good luck pank. You can make something up, but the fireing order and crank layout all have something in common. Waste your time though, better than trying to pollute this forum.


Speaking of bench racers I opened up my copy of The Puller magazine. You know the one, the national magazine from NTPA. WI50's picture in there a couple times on the podium for state and regional points. I squinted and didn't see yours pank.

They are already extensive research and findings on gas firing orders l6 engines. The question would be is this a diesel or a converted to alky  . If plans are for alky then camshaft firing order would be the equalizer for second imblalance vibrations
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Why is this guy still here? Produce something! Nice pics wi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 11:04am
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Spunkster, why don't you explain to us why a 426 AC crank has no counterweight? Why a JD has weights on all and why an IH 400 series has weights on 4 of the 6 cylinders? Of the 3 why is the non weighted AC crank the most likely to fail? Cummins and Cat are weighted.

Or better yet why pullers need to add the weights for durability?
I havent researched it thoroughly but my start on research would be on if there was any difference in firing orders of differing brands of engines to crank design. firing order can change torsional loads and lessen vibration

Hey Moron, all 4 stroke inline 6 cylinders you will ever work on fire 1-5-3-6-2-4. Repete, ALL.
Your differing firing order excuse dont ride, You dont know what you are talking about,,, as usual.
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Originally posted by Glockhead SWMI Glockhead SWMI wrote:

Why is this guy still here? Produce something! Nice pics wi.


So true. Didn't be say he was building some engine the other week?? How come we never hear about panks projects or get to see pictures. Even better, hear of a happy customer. I mean nothing can be that top secret, Wi posts pics and he's pictured in national magazines as a winner.

The only pictures of panks I've seen we're featured on this forum as bent rods hahah. I guess In panks mind he who throws the rod the farthest wins. Maybe he should take up shot putting.
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Pank stated that us bench pullers need to read wikiopedia more often...Look stupid, dont you know that ANYONE can edit Wikipedia? Why dont you go over there and try to look smart. Its not cutting it here anymore..You are the kind of guy who likes to spread his BS...there is your chance.   Man Im glad BK has the internet...knocking panks dick in the dirt...best lunch break all week..Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WildBill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 12:27pm
Crank looks awesome Marty! Is that held in with custom 4 bolt main caps ? Billet? Just curious?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wi50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Spunkster, why don't you explain to us why a 426 AC crank has no counterweight? Why a JD has weights on all and why an IH 400 series has weights on 4 of the 6 cylinders? Of the 3 why is the non weighted AC crank the most likely to fail? Cummins and Cat are weighted.

Or better yet why pullers need to add the weights for durability?
 
 
 
Well I'm not the spunkster, he can't answer and at least admitted it this time before makeing up some bs.  The non weighted ones fail the most..... the rest of the block is just plain strong enough to transfer the loads.  It's "forced" into being balanced, somewhere down the line on the crank.
 
But the weighted cranks help, the load is transfered across the crank rather than to another cylinder somewhere down the line. 
 
If you look at some cranks that are weighted on all the cylinders, the weights oppose the crankpin by180*.  The ones weiighted on 4 of the 6 cylinders have the weights clocked slightly off on some of the crankpins, some of the weights are 180* off the crankpin and some are clocked differently.  1 weight of the pair for one cylinder will be 180* off and the other weight for that cylinder will be clocked to help the non weighted cylinders on those cranks.
 
Spankey can look at the fireing orders, but it doesn't make any difference.  Gas, diesel, same difference.
 
Additional weight is added on these high RPM pulling cranks to hopefully completly nutralize the rod and piston unit, on each throw with minimal transfer elsewhere in the rotating assembly.  It's got enough stress on it. 
 
Stock cranks will run up pretty fast but will eventually throw themselves apart,  we all know that.  Weighted ones will run faster, and ones with all cylinders counterweighted and added weights will run untill the lifters spit out the block or the rod bolts pull.
 
Wild, Bill, just plain stock main caps in the block, decked and a 1" thick alumnium girdle with a block between the girdle and plate. 
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by wi50 wi50 wrote:

Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Spunkster, why don't you explain to us why a 426 AC crank has no counterweight? Why a JD has weights on all and why an IH 400 series has weights on 4 of the 6 cylinders? Of the 3 why is the non weighted AC crank the most likely to fail? Cummins and Cat are weighted.

Or better yet why pullers need to add the weights for durability?
 
 
 
Well I'm not the spunkster, he can't answer and at least admitted it this time before makeing up some bs.  The non weighted ones fail the most..... the rest of the block is just plain strong enough to transfer the loads.  It's "forced" into being balanced, somewhere down the line on the crank.
 
But the weighted cranks help, the load is transfered across the crank rather than to another cylinder somewhere down the line. 
 
If you look at some cranks that are weighted on all the cylinders, the weights oppose the crankpin by180*.  The ones weiighted on 4 of the 6 cylinders have the weights clocked slightly off on some of the crankpins, some of the weights are 180* off the crankpin and some are clocked differently.  1 weight of the pair for one cylinder will be 180* off and the other weight for that cylinder will be clocked to help the non weighted cylinders on those cranks.
 
Spankey can look at the fireing orders, but it doesn't make any difference.  Gas, diesel, same difference.
 
Additional weight is added on these high RPM pulling cranks to hopefully completly nutralize the rod and piston unit, on each throw with minimal transfer elsewhere in the rotating assembly.  It's got enough stress on it. 
 
Stock cranks will run up pretty fast but will eventually throw themselves apart,  we all know that.  Weighted ones will run faster, and ones with all cylinders counterweighted and added weights will run untill the lifters spit out the block or the rod bolts pull.
 
Wild, Bill, just plain stock main caps in the block, decked and a 1" thick alumnium girdle with a block between the girdle and plate. 
you need to research the firing order a little more .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Originally posted by wi50 wi50 wrote:

Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Spunkster, why don't you explain to us why a 426 AC crank has no counterweight? Why a JD has weights on all and why an IH 400 series has weights on 4 of the 6 cylinders? Of the 3 why is the non weighted AC crank the most likely to fail? Cummins and Cat are weighted.

Or better yet why pullers need to add the weights for durability?



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Well I'm not the spunkster, he can't answer and at least admitted it this time before makeing up some bs.  The non weighted ones fail the most..... the rest of the block is just plain strong enough to transfer the loads.  It's "forced" into being balanced, somewhere down the line on the crank.

 

But the weighted cranks help, the load is transfered across the crank rather than to another cylinder somewhere down the line. 

 

If you look at some cranks that are weighted on all the cylinders, the weights oppose the crankpin by180*.  The ones weiighted on 4 of the 6 cylinders have the weights clocked slightly off on some of the crankpins, some of the weights are 180* off the crankpin and some are clocked differently.  1 weight of the pair for one cylinder will be 180* off and the other weight for that cylinder will be clocked to help the non weighted cylinders on those cranks.

 

Spankey can look at the fireing orders, but it doesn't make any difference.  Gas, diesel, same difference.

 

Additional weight is added on these high RPM pulling cranks to hopefully completly nutralize the rod and piston unit, on each throw with minimal transfer elsewhere in the rotating assembly.  It's got enough stress on it. 

 

Stock cranks will run up pretty fast but will eventually throw themselves apart,  we all know that.  Weighted ones will run faster, and ones with all cylinders counterweighted and added weights will run untill the lifters spit out the block or the rod bolts pull.

 

Wild, Bill, just plain stock main caps in the block, decked and a 1" thick alumnium girdle with a block between the girdle and plate. 
you need to research the firing order a little more .





I'd love to learn how firing order effects the balance of a rotating mass. Please explain using proper spelling. punctuation, and grammar so all can understand without having to decipher your gibberish.   -Oh please cite your sources; and don't use Wikipedia, professors hated that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glockhead SWMI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 2:59pm
Well... when your firing order isn't right it vibrates like crazy...... lol.... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WildBill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 3:13pm
Thanks Marty.. Was only wondering with the rotating mass change if a person was to 4 bolt front and rear main caps ? But yes a girdle tied into it would make sense. Thanks.
Allis fan for life !   B,C,2-WC'S,WD45G,D19G,190xt ,LLSS 8010, terra tiger refurbished
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