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Connecting rods

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Rod B View Drop Down
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Joined: 25 Jul 2011
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:49am
But you claimed your builds were all-out. As in all out awesome with nothing held back.

Is your machine shop a non profit organization?   Seams if you're as busy as you claim, budget constraints should not be an issue. With union pay scale even less of an issue. Just makeing $1 per hour instead of trying to proclaim your intelligence on all internet sites would have bought good parts. Murphys was makeing rods at that time for about $1000.

Panknomics. A buck saved on important engine parts is another buck to spend on booze.
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Rod B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:08am
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

With a set of forged billet rods that engine woud still be running.



No it wouldn't. It would have still shook itself apart
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mufflerboltz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mufflerboltz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:10am
well I'll do one thing that you will never do Pank, that is I'll admit I was wrong a bout bearings! But i hope that doesnt give you a bigger head (which it probably will) cuz  i dont really care and can man up where i am wrong unlike you!  but anyways say what you will cuz you will anyhow just to hear yourself talk! Good day 
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Rod B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:15am
With pank's measureing skills we've seen in being off .020" on head gaskets and his cam degreeing problems he can't measure a bearing bore accuratly enough to know if it's round like his belly or square like his head.
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mufflerboltz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mufflerboltz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:29am
Rod
Im just saying that i can handle being wrong, i don't have to change the subject or go pointing fingers at someone else to make myself look better. I know i haven't been on this forum that long and still have alot to learn about pulling but i cant stand one of those people that is "that guy" who just doesn't shut up and realize that nobody's listening and does not care about his soap box preaching! 
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Butch(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:41am
The answer as to why the tabs break of when the insert spins is as plain and simple as the nose on your face, they stick out. Why kind of super ingeniousness rocket scientist does it take to understand that??? Good griefConfused 

Why dont you answer some questions about  bushing type insert bearings for us since you know more about them than the Mfg of the bearing, their reps or anyone else.
 
Since tabs are what keeps the rod and main inserts from spinning
A- What keeps the cam bearings from spinning?
B- What keeps the bushing from spinning in an idler gear, generator, distributor shaft etc?

The answer is crush, same as the rods and mains. As the rep tried to tell you, if he knew his stuff, the tabs on an split type insert bushing bearing are there for two reasons
1. They locate the inserts SIDEWAYS for assembly.
2. They locate the parting line in relationship to the parting line of the rod for assembly.

That they provide some VERY limited extra non-rotational force is nothing but a side affect. If they are there for what you claim they certainly do a pi$$ poor job of it as even you have read and looked at pictures and have seen that when the insert rotates they simply tear off. When they started using Aluminum rods in hi performance engines it wasn't long before they had to pin the inserts in place to keep them from rotating. Clevite soon had the inserts out and the hole size and location was more or less standardized. If your theory is correct explain why given same engine with only change being the rod material why was this only true for aluminum rods? The answer is your theory is  wrong. The pins were needed because Aluminum expands at a much greater rate than any steel or iron. They expand so much that you loose crush and then the insert spins and those little locking tabs for ASSEMBLY  sure aren't going to stop it, and didn't and still dont.  The situation was compounded even further as certain "hi performance" inserts are ( or were) steel backed. Now you had a rod bore growing more than the OEM part and and insert growing less than the OEM part.  

The Bamfords diesel in my shop right now has no tabs on the inserts, none zero, notta and never did. The insert is retained by crush which is specified in the manual. Come up to the shop and we will start it up and put out a lawn chair for you so you can laugh and giggle when it slings the rod out the side, Better bring a bed role and a few years worth a food along, its been running since 1941. 






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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 9:46am
Yabut, yabut, yabut, MP would waste your time, my time and anybody else's time arguing because he's union and gets paid by the hour. we've seen him argue with himself on this site.  The more he argues, the less work he has to do (if he ever does any work). He'd probably argue with a nuclear engineer about how the reactor failed. Just because he couldn't keep the water pump running had absolutely nothing to do with the failureWacko


Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 26 Jan 2013 at 9:47am
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 12:43pm
Yeah butch they help hold the bearing so in order for the bearing to move the force e is great enough to break the tabs and overcome the intefernce or crush. Not just one thing holding the bearing but two things a little insurance Mufflerbolts glad you can be taught so many on here cant like rob still arguing a rod machined from stock is stronger than even lower grade steel thats forged.

Edited by mlpankey - 26 Jan 2013 at 12:54pm
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wi50 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wi50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

glad you can be taught so many on here cant like rob still arguing a rod machined from stock is stronger than even lower grade steel thats forged.
 
 
I knew there was a use for thick styrofoam.... I just knew it would come in handy to make super light connecting rods.
 
The point of billet rods is to get a rod stronger than the low grade forged ones..... get a rod with custom dimensions and the ability to do the job.  I bet all the billet alumnium rods are junk too.....I have a set of those for the super stock.  Better call GMS and return them, get the $2750 back and buy some buda rods for it......   


Edited by wi50 - 26 Jan 2013 at 1:21pm
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Larry W. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 1:32pm
Make sure you use the high R value green Styrofoam the pink stuff just won't cut it!
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 1:38pm
Alumunium rods need changed every season. But in your case a pull every ten years they should last a lifetime .most aluminum rods are forged. If they arent send them back.forging makes softer materials stronger.

Edited by mlpankey - 26 Jan 2013 at 1:42pm
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Rod B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 2:20pm
More pankey logic. Materials with 45,000-65,00 psi tensel strength like his rods are stronger than rods machined from the 4140-4340 group with tensel strength of 140,000-180,000 psi tensel strength.



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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 3:19pm
Check on forging.
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Larry W. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 4:57pm
Marty made more passes last summer just on the wtpa circuit then you've probably made in the last 5 years pank.
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:20pm
Where did he purchase that case engine from larry he so proud of it on the allis site you know.

Edited by mlpankey - 26 Jan 2013 at 6:22pm
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Larry W. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:33pm
It was built by him.

Edited by Larry W. - 26 Jan 2013 at 6:35pm
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Rod B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:40pm
Didn't you get exposed in the top fuel maching thread pankey as the guy who buys engines. I read the link. Buy a competitive engine and tune it into an uncompetitive state. Then sell the parts, leak the original builders secrets.
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:56pm
I dont recon you implied that but we know youll lie. High te sile rod loads come from screaming rpms. I can prove it. A fellow can run a turbo and low rpms and make cnc machined rods live a while.but if he decides to twist the rpms up bad things will happen.
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

I dont recon you implied that but we know youll lie. High tensile rod loads come from screaming rpms. I can prove it. A fellow can run a turbo and low rpms and make cnc machined rods live a while.but if he decides to twist the rpms up bad things will happen.
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Ihateillinoisnazis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Where did he purchase that case engine from larry he so proud of it on the allis site you know.


HAHAHAHA Now we have heard it all.   Spankster you really are a one of a kind.  I think the points standings for the year shows the level of work the WI does.   Spanksalot, how did your points record look this year??? Please post a link, I'm sure many others on here would like to see it.  
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Rod B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:43pm
I watched illinazi tune a LSS one night by swapping injectors based on cylinder position takeing into account cam deflection.

You should see him tune an allis to perfection with the choke blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:53pm
MP making billet rods.

http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Ihateillinoisnazis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by CTuckerNWIL CTuckerNWIL wrote:

MP making billet rods.



Hahah ended something like this....?

http://youtu.be/TNNvjbzrC0Q?t=18s
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Rod B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:19pm
Get it right. He uses OSB chipboard. It's like forged wood.
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

I dont recon you implied that but we know youll lie. High te sile rod loads come from screaming rpms. I can prove it. A fellow can run a turbo and low rpms and make cnc machined rods live a while.but if he decides to twist the rpms up bad things will happen.
 Nobody said anything about "High te sile rod loads" whatever that is. 
 Mention was made of tensile strength of different materials. If you read what was printed in front of you, you probably could make sense of some of the information that just FLIES over your head.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by Ihateillinoisnazis Ihateillinoisnazis wrote:

 
Hahah ended something like this....?

[TUBE]http://youtu.be/TNNvjbzrC0Q?t=18s[/TUBE]


Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 26 Jan 2013 at 8:32pm
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Ihateillinoisnazis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihateillinoisnazis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Get it right. He uses OSB chipboard. It's like forged wood.


What's stronger... that forged chip board or red oak? Hmm 


Ctucker, thanks for hyperlinking the video! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EricSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 1:23am
Nope no one could figure out running high rpm's is hard on rods or any other part of the engine. Stuff will break but if billet rods are made out of stronger material then the buds rod I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the billet rod is stronger or am i wrong lmao. The chip board has to be stronger its forged.
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 2:02am
If you make two rods from the same strength stock one cnc machined one forged which is stronger.if you make a forged rod out of a slightly weaker stock than the cnc machined which is stronger.its amazing how short the rod ratio is and how small the needle bearing rod is compared to piston size and them ole saws flat turn some rpms. A long rod man would say no way they could turn such rpms but thats not reality and thats where i live.

Edited by mlpankey - 27 Jan 2013 at 2:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EricSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 2:14am
If the rods are identical thickness length and so on then the billet would be equal in your first example and better in your second a chain saw is a hole different animal compared to a tractor engine. The bigger the stroke the less rpms a engine will withstand I'm not a chainsaw guy but what are they a inch and a half stroke
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