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OhKen 
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 Topic: Combine electric hyd.valve to tractor
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 8:26pm |
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Have a hyd valve from a N6 that I would really like to retro into a 7060 . Has this ever been tried ? Will the valve flow 821 ?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 8:44pm |
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Valve will flow 821 oil, yes. I'd have to sit down and re-read the N-series hydraulic system and how it functions. The front section was high pressure for the power steering, header lift (one-way) and unloader swing, which was a two-way valve. The front valve stack of this area was called the master section and controlled the hydraulic pumps output/pressures. I suppose if one used the master section (and didn't use the power steering ports ?) and header lift section for the 3-point hitch and then stacked the next three or four sections to be auger swing (two-way) valves, you might have something. But, I wouldn't want remote valves that I had to hold the rocker switch with my finger until the implement was fully up or down. I also wouldn't want remote valves that didn't have a float position either. If you'd ever need the Traction Booster feature on the 3-point, it wouldn't be there. So, my vote is this N-series system wouldn't work for me. For 25 yrs there have been electric add-on remote outlets, but they too don't have a self-canceling rocker switch feature or a timer of any kind, nor a float position either. No winner again.
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MACK
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Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 9:09pm |
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If I remember correctly, part of that valve in open center and part serves as a closed center. Been out of it a few years now. MACK
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tbran
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Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 11:03pm |
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Depends on what you want to do with it - flow rates are restricted via orfices to slow flow wayyyy down. Unless you have a real understanding of hydraulics don't try this at home. IF you do, get a flow chart from the gleaner service manual, tons of fittings and adaptors, wrap the piston pump with a scatter blanket and have at it :-)
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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OhKen
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Posted: 07 Jan 2022 at 5:21am |
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Thanks for all the replies . I guess my thinking was to get the header lift module from other valve banks and use those as the remote valves . The local yard has surprisingly a lot of the electric hydraulic assemblies . That assembly over the years on the combine has turned out to be so reliable , that in my experience the assemblies are plentiful . The thought of destroying the pump on the tractor is what will quash this idea . That is a part that if fails , I’m not sure if that may not doom the tractor to its final rest . I’m not embarrassed to say I do not have the technical ability to source the components . And that is the reason I posted my question here . I dislike JD , but I love the hydraulic controls in the 8000 series . I guess I just have to figure out , what company they stole the idea from ! Then maybe I can move forward or just give up . I like new technology and I’ve always liked adapting that into something that would enhance something that has a solid outdated base . Here’s a little tip for this type of thinking . Google “ sloppymechanics “ . This is a web site chuck clear full of guys that take components from various manufacturers and have the ability to marry together , to make things work . A great source of info . Just my question posed there would not of been as fruitful , as I hoped here . Thanks for all the replies .
Edited by OhKen - 07 Jan 2022 at 5:24am
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Jan 2022 at 6:14am |
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But, the header lift valve section itself is only a one-way valve, not two-way. This would be OK with you ??
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OhKen
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Posted: 07 Jan 2022 at 6:17am |
 DrAllis wrote:
But, the header lift valve section itself is only a one-way valve, not two-way. This would be OK with you ?? |
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OhKen
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Posted: 07 Jan 2022 at 6:32am |
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I could see one designated valve for that . But I’ll be very frank you pointed out something that I knew but hadn’t considered how that rules that module out . My thinking was flow capability . To make that work I would need 2 of those valves modules, to give the remote pressure both ways ? This idea is quickly going south ! The valves are plentiful —- but this would turn into a cluster pretty quickly ! I’m not giving up . Just what has been such a successful platform on the Gleaner side , I was hoping could have life again on the tractor side . The 2 way modules can they have their flow increased or is that a no as well ? Can I pair 2 modules to activate simultaneously , plumbed to one remote to give me the flow I need ?
Edited by OhKen - 07 Jan 2022 at 6:34am
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Jan 2022 at 7:18am |
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Now, you are getting into an area probably none of us know about for sure. I'm sure one can raise the header (one-way valve) while swinging out the unloader auger (two-way) if the engine is throttled up a bit. But to activate more than that would probably cause flow inequality between valve sections as there isn't any real flow controls incorporated into the valves except for orifices. The one-way header lift valve section does have speed/flow adjustment, but that is the only one.
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OhKen
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Posted: 07 Jan 2022 at 7:40am |
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I’m not doing a very good job of getting my thinking across ! When I say 2 header lift modules for one remote . One module would give remote pressure up , the second module would give pressure down . That covers one remote . Say the auger swing module since it is probably the next in flow capacity and substantially less than the header lift . Could we have 2 circuits/modules energize simultaneously , to double the flow to the remote that the 2 units are plumbed to ? In all seriousness the 2 functions on a tractor that I assume use the most flow , would be 3pt. and the number 1 remote . Number 1 would primarily be used to run the operation that would require the most flow . Lift implement . The other circuits that would require substantially less (operate markers) maybe the single swing cylinder module would work well on its own . Am I conveying better my thoughts ? Not attempting to run multiple remotes at same time . Although that maybe possible but recognizing the reduction in speed of functions will result .
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Jan 2022 at 8:22am |
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I suppose three header lift valves could be stacked up together with a master valve at the input end. The first header lift valve would be for the 3-point hitch, because it is one-way. The next two header lift valves could be for ONE remote valve circuit....one for raise and one for lower, with both being flow/speed adjustable. Using two header lift valves in tandem could also afford a "float" position. Now, you've got to come up with a switch to control the valves and there is still the issue of no "timer" for these electric controlled coils. I can see this electric stack being separate from the existing tractor stack and teed into the pump output line so either system could be used, but maybe only one at a time.
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OhKen
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Posted: 07 Jan 2022 at 11:03am |
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Thanks DrAllis . I like what you have said about the 2 header lift valves to one remote and that providing a float option . I had not contemplated that being a function obtainable . Now as far as a switch to control the function of the valves , I’m going to step back into my “sloppymechanics” mindset ! My car that I drive has power windows . Hold on don’t leave me !! The switch has 4 positions . 1 is neutral , 2 is down , 3 is raise and the final position is down auto and when that is completed the switch automatically kicks back to position 1 . Following ? Now what would the signal to trip switch from position 4 back to one ? Some form of timer ? Some form of sender that would measure pressure building in the pressure down line ? Dr Allis thank you for humoring me on this , but with what you have shared with me I’m honestly thinking it maybe an option to do this ! And my goal is to remove the factory manual valve completely and perform the functions with the electric valve completely . Remote 2 and 3 are not what I consider to be high flow so the module that swings the auger , I think would be enough for those remotes . I would be giving up the option of running power beyond , such as driving a hydraulic motor . I’m ok with that , I never use that function anyway . Thanks again
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MACK
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Posted: 07 Jan 2022 at 8:06pm |
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With the closed center system you could still have power beyond. Except for flow control, you could use all the auger swing valves you wanted for remotes. MACK
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Unit3
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Posted: 07 Jan 2022 at 10:43pm |
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I know this isn't what you are wanting. And I too have dreamed about using the auger swing valve. I have a setup from an N7. I think it would be great to use the AC/Gleaner parts to make it happen, but I had a Red Ball 680 sprayer on the 7045. It was GREAT!!! I had a pistol grip that held seven switches. It all worked from one remote. You would still have to run one lever each way, but you had seven functions and all had float, lower, and raise. Best of luck.
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2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C
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OhKen
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Posted: 08 Jan 2022 at 10:10am |
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Tell me more ! Are you saying it was a stand alone feature mounted on the sprayer ? What did the controller look like ? In a perfect world I’d love to remove the control console on the side of the cab . This would give me more room to mount a nice seat like in the JD 8000 with finger tip controls, that would swivel . Where can I see the controller you described ? Thank you
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Joe(TX)
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Posted: 08 Jan 2022 at 10:15am |
I guess like DrAllis said, the N6 valve could be teed int the 7060 system if it is closed center load sensing. The description in the parts catalog says pressure compensated which is not the same. Load sense holds the pressure at low flow and low pressure, pressure compensated reduces the flow at full pressure. It may work. It may disable the load sense on the tractor.
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Jan 2022 at 10:54am |
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N-series hyd pump is virtually identical to a 7000/8000 series piston pump. Same compensator. Just has a shaft seal on the drive shafts end for a drive coupler to power it.
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acken
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 8:07pm |
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I don't see using 2 valves, one up,one down, working. You need a place for the return oil to get back to sump, the opposing valve won't let that happen
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 8:10pm |
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Sure it will. You have to have a switch wired to activate them both at the same time. Oil out of one and into the other and vice versa.
Each 2-way valve has two outlet ports. One outlet port on each valve has to be plugged permanently. One valve does raise and the other does lower on the remaining open ports.
Edited by DrAllis - 09 Jan 2022 at 8:12pm
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