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CARB FIXED - First start of Allis C

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easygoin4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote easygoin4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 9:39pm
The battery cables are a no. 2 wire.
Ground I know is good sanded all well for good conntact
The cables are not std. 12 volt cables. I noticed gasket is wet at carb. So assume too much fuel. Will try again tomorrow.. thanks
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Ken in Texas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken in Texas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 11:26pm
A 12 volt charger will NOT spin a 6 volt starter. Got volts but no startin amps. Use a 12 volt Battery. It will actually spin the engine too fast for the mag to snap and fire. Just bump it over with 12 volts like your handcranking the engine. Your wasting your time spinnin the engine fast.
I think your having carb issues. Reset your float level. Sounds like your drowning it in gas.
I'm telling you this stuff because I just went thru all this BS myself.

Edited by Ken in Texas - 27 Nov 2015 at 11:27pm
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easygoin4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote easygoin4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2015 at 5:06pm
Good new Sort of:
First- got tired of trying to crank it with 6 Volt, just not enough, will figure out later, So I grabbed my Jet ski battery and disconnected all electrical and direct to starter and starter housing, cranks great now enough to fire it up.
Problem is Fuel, I have taken carb off 6 times to adjust floats, keeps pouring our the bottom hole. I even left off bowl on bench ran water in funnel and clear line and lifted the floats up maybe 1/4" and it shut off the flow- thought I had it.. NOPE.
Is there any tricks to float adjustments.
Also the floats are good no holes in them, checked that too.

But she will run, I only have a little fuel tank on it until I get carb right, great oil pressure and no smoke.

The carb is a Zenith..

Any Suggestions..
thanks


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Hubnut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2015 at 5:11pm
Did you rebuild the carburetor?  In my experience, if the carb is dirty the stop valve pin will stick and not shut off the flow of fuel.  You may need to buy new seat and pin for the carb.  However, when I clean my carbs, I use brake cleaner to force volume through the ports and passages.  Once everything is really cleaned, try it again.  Also, I've never had luck with viton type shut off pin.  I prefer the metal ones.
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easygoin4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote easygoin4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2015 at 5:23pm
I will try to load the video of it running and son pointing to carb leak.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2015 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by easygoin4 easygoin4 wrote:


Ground I know is good sanded all well for good conntact
The cables are not std. 12 volt cables. I noticed gasket is wet at carb. So assume too much fuel. Will try again tomorrow.. thanks

 What ground is sanded? The starter HAS to be in direct contact with the block or you have no good ground. NO paint on the outside diameter of the starter and NO paint in the bell housing hole. Rust in those 2 places will also insulate it from grounding. Also , any connection of the ground cable needs to be direct to solid contact of the torque tube. IE if you are connected to the steering post support, is the post in good paint free contact with the torque tube?
 As to the carb leaking out the bottom, I believe your needle is not seating good and no amount of float adjustment will fix that. With the top half of the carb turned upside down, the float should set level (parallel) with the gasket area. In that position, you should not be able to blow thru the gas inlet with your lung pressure.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Acmichael View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acmichael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2015 at 9:03pm
Looks good. I'm glad someone else is asking all of these questions. I'm getting real close to firing mine up and after reading these post its gonna help me to make sure everything is like it's supposed to be.   Thanks
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easygoin4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote easygoin4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2015 at 5:46am
I have taken the carb apart soaked in carb. cleaner and blew out every opening with compressed air and carb. spray.
the carb was actuall very clean from what I have seen in the past, there were no marks on the needle that appeared to be worn.
I did find a manual on line for Zenith Carbs and now see how to meausre the float. I will also try to blow thru line as mentioned.

The Starter housing and starter have been sanded and cleaned- that is why I was finding it difficult to understand this ground issue. The ground terminal off battery is going to steering post and did sand it but will do again. I have checked all me grounds with an OHM Meter and they were reading good contact.

It sure made my day when I heard her run for longer than 5 seconds and ran so smooth, guess my timing was right on - thakns to all the guys for timing advise..

I will work on it the next few days after work to get things dialed in and try that float adjustment again.

Thank You all Very, Very Much...
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2015 at 6:47am
I don't know where the C's FACTORY ground-connection point was originally, but I'd connect it to the point closest to the starter... if there was a connection tab on the STARTER, I'd put it there, and now that I'm thinking of it, I'll probably weld a grounding tab to Schwartz's starter, and then take a second ground wire to the block for ignition...

There's another possible source of carbeurator issue- if there was water in the carbeurator passages at some point in time, and it happened to freeze, it COULD have cracked the casting internally somewhere, and not be easily seen. Gasoline will seep through a crack that water's surface tension may not.

Another possibility, is that if the carb inlet is restricted (say by an air cleaner that was being restrictive) it will draw substantially more fuel, even with the choke open. May or may not be the case for you, but just for future reference, if moisture displaces the oil in the oil bath air cleaner, then freezes... it makes for a very frustrating start-up experience (don't ask how I learned this! )
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote easygoin4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2015 at 7:17pm
Great idea on the additional ground terminal.

Float issue Still:
I set float perfectly and put on again it still pours out the bottom hole.
This is getting very frustrating- I have had this carb off 8 times.

Now I left carb attached and removed bowl to see how much gas in it- see pictures, fuel was down bout 5/8" as shown- how could it be overflowing.

MY thoughts are now maybe something else is causing the overflow- but I do not know the workings of a carb to clearly.
There are no cracks in bowl that i can see, so how does the fuel get to the other chamber to leak out.

Any ideas...

Thanks not much hair left to pull out...









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Steve in NJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 8:42am
Two things to do to that Carburetor. First, buy yourself a bore brush that you can install in the end of your hand drill and run in and out of the inlet port. The inlet ports on these Carburetors get so full of rust and debris from the threads to the back of the bore inlet hole it isn't funny. If there is a lot of debris in there, its just gonna keep sticking to the Viton needle causing a flooding issue. Second, make sure the needle valve is running smooth up n' down in the seat's bore and not hanging up. Take the needle out, and with some super fine steel wool burnish the needle to remove any rough edges on the needle that could hang the needle up. I do these two things on every rebuild I do for our customer's. I tank, soap wash, and then glassbead our customer's Carburetor's, and still after all of that, run the bore brush in and out of that inlet cavity and still the rust and debris comes outta' there! Its a trap for dirt, rust and debris in there...HTH
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Chuck(ONT) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck(ONT) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 10:32am
Did you check the float for leaks?
Never take life too seriously.

Nobody gets out alive anyway!

1C 1 WD45 1 AC180
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 11:02am
First you have to quit trying to blame the float.  Listen to Steve and make yourself understand how the  needle valve must seat without fine particals of rust can hold it open enough to leak by the seat. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 11:17am
Listen to Steve and Dick and like I said, u7se lung pressure to check the seat of the needle with the carb top UPSIDE DOWN!
Originally posted by CTuckerNWIL CTuckerNWIL wrote:


 As to the carb leaking out the bottom, I believe your needle is not seating good and no amount of float adjustment will fix that. With the top half of the carb turned upside down, the float should set level (parallel) with the gasket area. In that position, you should not be able to blow thru the gas inlet with your lung pressure.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B26240 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 3:36pm
Dick Steve and CT are all correct, it's hard to believe how much gas will pass thru the needle/seat with just a tiny piece of dirt on the needle seat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 4:02pm
Here's another problem that I see that can be causing chronic hair pulling . I see you have a rubber fuel line running to the Carburetor. Depending on how old that rubber hose is, they deteriorate from the inside out, and little minute pieces of rubber will get down into the seat and hang it up also. I suggest installing a new metal fuel line or install a new piece of rubber hose. Personally, the metal line is the way to fly! Your problem is not a float issue....
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote easygoin4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2015 at 5:10am
So this guy feels like an Idiot.. I have had carb apart many times its clean as a whistle, adjusted the floats about 9 times.
Keep going back in my head about someone talking about a vent.
I looked at what I thought was the vent and seemed to have a plug in it.

Well not so - after thinking about air flow and all the gas that is pouring out - maybe it should be open, so thru a magnifier (cause I am older and cant see) it had hardened crud in it. Cleand it out all the way open now.

Starts right up- RUNS GREAT, No gas pouring out anywhere, just blows me away how many time I looked at that vent hole.

I will attached a picture for others to see the vent that was plugged.

Now going to work on 6 Volt system and get it up to par.

I want to Thank ALL OF YOU for the kind words and help on this.

Thanks Again...
Chris




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easygoin4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote easygoin4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2015 at 5:16am
Picture showing vent that wad plugged.

Thanks Again..
Trying this from a phone so hope it shows up.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2015 at 6:59am
Damn bugs!!! Glad to hear you found your problem!
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveC (NS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2015 at 7:30am
Can anyone put an arrow pointing to the "vent" in Chris's photo for me?

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allischalmerguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2015 at 7:37am
I was just thinking the same thing Steve...where is the vent?
It is great being a disciple of Jesus! 1950 WD, 1957 D17...retired in Iowa,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote easygoin4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2015 at 5:18pm
Sorry picture so big..

Scroll to the right I have a pick that I am pointing to vent with.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote easygoin4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2015 at 5:19pm
sorry picture so big, not the greatest with these computers.

Scroll over to the right and I am pointing to the vent with a metal pic.

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thank you!
It is great being a disciple of Jesus! 1950 WD, 1957 D17...retired in Iowa,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 12:19am
A little smaller......

1950 B
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveC (NS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 6:38am
Thanks Erik! And Chris ( I was so intimidated by the BIG pic I didn't think of scrolling over. LOL)
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