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Dale (Stonelick) 
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Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Location: Stonelick, Ohio
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 Topic: CA Refurb - Frozen Hand Clutch
Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 7:33pm |
All parts on this 1951 CA refurb have been rusted and corroded - appears the hand clutch is no exception. I have the final drive housing removed (see pictures) and have several questions I hope someone can help me with.
Bearing/Hub/Actuator/Retainer/Actuator Support - How do I remove this assembly from the differential?
- Will the entire assembly come off in one piece if I remove the Actuator Support bolts?
- Will a gear puller help pull this off?
- There is a lot of corrosion between the parts - could a good cleaning free things up? Or is there something else causing the clutch to be frozen? I do not see any evidence of anything purposely bolted tight (or welded together) to keep the clutch from slipping.
Clutch Assembly - How do I remove this assembly from the housing?
- Is the clutch assembly bolted to the brake drum?
- Are both of these removed from the housing as one unit?
- Do I need to remove the brake shoes before I can remove them?
- I assume everything is rusted up - any hints on all to break this free from the housing?
- How can I determine if the clutch needs to be refurbed before I reassemble everything? I would rather not tear this down again if cleaning up the Actuator parts does not get the hand clutch working properly.
Thanks for any information you can provide
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 8:23pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 8:24pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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HD6GTOM
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Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Location: MADISON CO IA
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Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 9:14pm |
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Dale, I don't know how to take it apart but the older guys that had them, when I owned the farm fuel business, told me they bolted the hand clutch solid. It seems they did not stand up to heavy duty work such as plowing sod. Things like running a round baler they were fine. Good luck with it. I would love to own 1 with a wide front end.
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DaveSB
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Joined: 04 Aug 2012
Location: mocksville, nc
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Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 2:31am |
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If you’re wanting the hand clutch out, the actuator you pictured still bolted to the tractor has nothing to do with removing the hand clutch, although Iit needs to come off to be sent to the rebuilder, I think it only has 2 bolts and it will come off.
Now the hand clutch is inside the final drive just slipped on a shaft with a key way to keep it from slipping. They can freeze to the shat and be a bear to get off, penetrating oil and pry bars to remove, you might make some kind of puller to get it off, but not much room for that , and could hurt the hand clutch.
The clutch is bolted to the brake drum but needs to be removed as a unit. It may be frozen too the shaft pretty badly, but they can usually be removed with patience and perseverance.
As the previous poster said some people bolt the clutch plates to the assembly so there is no way it can slip. Still doesn’t change the removal process, but I’ve seen several bolted together.
Some people that also have no need for the clutch swap in a left axle and leave the clutch out of the tractor all together.
As far as the brake shoes, go ahead and take them off, probably need new ones anyway, and it may give you more room to wiggle the clutch out.
I recommend sending it too Rick for a rebuild after it’s out, it will slide out, just may have to work on it a few minutes every day.
If you don’t need the clutch bolt the disc and drive together and no more worries, but a lot of people including me really like the second clutch for mowing and such, if it was mine I’d definitely get it rebuilt. Get a good job and it’ll probably last as long as you have the tractor. I have 2 CA’s and couldn’t imagine not having the extra clutch. But it’s up to you and what your gonna do with the tractor when it’s done.
Good luck with it , and I would for sure send it to Rick to get fixed, maybe even call him for removal help. I’ve only taken 3 or 4 out, I bet he’s done a whole bunch more. He is a wealth of info on them and whatever he says is what needs to be done.
Keep us updated.
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1948 C, 1953 CA, 1948 WD, 1961 D-17 Series 2 Diesel, 1939 WC, 1957 D14
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Gary
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Peterborough,On
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Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 8:02am |
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ac hunter
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Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 8:20am |
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Or if you want an easy fix just send the clutch to Rick. He does a super job and it will come back looking like new. He provided both clutches on my CA as well as a couple other tractors; great guy to work with and support if you need it.
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NICKMI
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Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 4:04pm |
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Send rick the input shaft with your hand clutch he will weld and regrind the shaft where the seal rides good as new he did mine a few years ago did a great job at very reasonable price
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Ted J
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Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: La Crosse, WI
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Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 7:31pm |
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Take LOTS of pics as you go along and make NOTES that you can post here and keep us up to date Dale.! I'd appreciate it. Gonna (hopefully) be digging into a couple of them myself this summer.
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Dale (Stonelick)
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Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 6:29pm |
Trying to come up with Plan C to remove the hand clutch/brake drum assembly from the Shaft inside the Final Drive Housing. The assembly seems to be rusted in pretty good - prying, lubing, heating and whacking hasn't worked. Gear puller wouldn't work.
Looking at the parts illustrations, it seems like I should be able to remove the Cover/Gaskets/Bearings from wheel end of the final housing and drive out the combined Shaft/Brake Drum/Hand Clutch - nothing in the illustrations show anything mechanically attaching it to the housing (or to the axle Gear). However, something must be holding it or else it should have moved when prying on the brake drum. Can anyone describe what is holding this in the final drive housing? Do I have to first remove the Axle and Axle Gear?
I'm thinking that if I can remove the Shaft with the Clutch and Brake Drum, I can better direct the MAP torch heat to get the shaft separated.
The Actuator Assembly came off easily as described by DaveSB. Took off two bolts, then used gear puller (although it probably would come off by whacking with 4 x 4).
My current plan is to send Actuator and Clutch to Rick and let him refurb.
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 9:29pm |
This is a B drawing, but i assume the CA is similar... The SHAFT is held into position by the two tapered bearings and shimmed at the outer cover for minor clearance. Normally you remove the OUTER BEARING COVER as you said.. then PRESS the shaft from the OTHER END, out thru the OUTER BEARING COVER... AS you press it out, the brake hub stays in the housing... There is a SET SCREW on the brake hub that has access thru the 1 inch round hole on the bottom of the housing... Did you remove it ? Spray penetrant into the hole and around the shaft... Putting in a hydraulic press is a good way to get it to move.
I dont think the gear between the bearings ( outside end of shaft) will allow you to press the shaft INWARD.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 9:46pm |
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When the manual says " grab the drum and slide it off the shaft", or use a small puller... They are not taking 60 years of RUST and CRUD into account.. It will have to be PRESSED or DRIVEN out... I have done a few with a brass plate on the end of the shaft and a 20 pound sledge hammer.... about 50 blows... easier with a 20 ton press.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Rick
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Posted: 02 Mar 2021 at 1:02am |
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On that top shaft in the pic there where the brake band rides on the brake drum...take out the 4 bolts that holds that end plate on. The brake band will need to come out first and should have been done, before the final drive was taken off the tractor (easier). I just took a hard piece of Oak and an 8 lb. maul and tapped mine twice and it came right apart...yours may take longer from the looks of it. Just make sure you pay attention as to how it came apart...pretty simple and straight forward, really. If you're going to send it to me, PLEASE DO NOT disassemble the clutch itself...I'll do that here!!! LOL! Rick
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Dale (Stonelick)
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Posted: 05 Mar 2021 at 10:48am |
I PM'ed Steve (ill) to ask more about how he removed the clutch/brake drum from his model B. I am wanting to try his method of driving the shaft out thru the cover plate, rather than pulling the clutch/brake drum out with a pry bar in the opposite direction - which hasn't worked for me.
Apparently the model B has a set screw holding the shaft in the housing, while the model CA has a snap ring. You can see this in the CA drawing that Steve posted on Feb 12. #53 is the snap ring behind #54 bushing. When I look through the final drive housing drain hole under the brake drum in my CA, I cannot see the snap ring nor can I feel it with a dental pick. I originally assumed that this snap ring went missing years ago as it is obvious that the final drive housing has been removed many times before (the mounting nuts are rounded over). But I would like to make sure so I don't damage anything when I try to drive the shaft out with a sledge (Steve said it takes about 50 strikes with a sledge because of all the rust and crud).
Does anyone have experience on this with a CA? If the snap ring is present, is it obvious to see? Can it be hidden under the #54 bushing? If the snap ring is there when I drive the shaft out, will it break free without doing serious damage?
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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Alex09(WI)
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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Posted: 05 Mar 2021 at 2:22pm |
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Snap ring is not holding the clutch unit on the shaft. Snap ring is on other side of shaft to prevent clutch from sliding too far on shaft. Remove axle end cover and stick a long solid punch through the clutch onto the end of the shaft and hammer/press away. Will need to replace axle seal as keyway will take it out when shaft comes out.
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www.awtractor.com
A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287
KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY
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Dale (Stonelick)
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Posted: 05 Mar 2021 at 5:13pm |
Alex09-
Should I be concerned about the snap ring damaging the brake drum as I punch the shaft through? I can't see the snap ring, but it might be hidden from view. Or it might have been removed or lost long ago.
Thanks - Dale
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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Alex09(WI)
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Posted: 05 Mar 2021 at 7:10pm |
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No, snap ring will not damage anything.
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www.awtractor.com
A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287
KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY
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Dale (Stonelick)
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Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 7:36pm |
I finally got the CA hand clutch/brake drum assembly removed from the final drive housing. I'm including some of my notes as Ted J requested.
Since I could not pry the assembly out, I drove the shaft out the other direction after removing the end plate (as suggested by Steve and Rick). This took me quite a few weeks while I kept the shaft soaked with penetrating oil. It finally came out relatively easy once I wedged in some steel plates between the brake drum and the final drive housing. I think the problem was that when I was trying to drive the shaft out, it had no hard resistance until I inserted the steel plates.
I found no evidence of the snap ring shown in the Parts Illustration. It did not have a set screw as Steve noted for the Model B. I did remove the new brake shoes I put in last year - so these came out easy this time.
I bashed the end of the shaft pretty hard with my home made drift (two 9" blacksmith round tapers connected with three-quarter inch plastic electric conduit). It did not seem to damage the end of the shaft.
I bought a $60 one ton HF chain hoist which made handling the heavy final housing much easier.
The picture below shows the clutch/brake drum assembly (top) and the actuator (bottom). In the middle is the shaft with the large key. Also shown is my redneck home made 18" drift.
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 6:49am |
Dale, Some of these things are a challange. I have never had one of these apart yet. Thanks for the pictures and details. Yea the 60 years of rust and crud are not considered in the manuals! Good job getting it apart with minimal disruption! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Ted J
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Posted: 12 Apr 2021 at 3:01pm |
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THANKS Dale! This will sure help. How's it coming now?
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Dale (Stonelick)
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Posted: 12 Apr 2021 at 8:00pm |
Ted:
Rick is ready to ship my hand clutch back to me once he gets my check in the mail. His report on my clutch "It was all of the rust inside of the hand clutch assembly that was keeping it from working properly...it was loaded with rust and bound tight! It looks and works much different now though, but get a manual, so you can adjust it by the book, if you don't already have one...worth it's weight in gold. It's got all new bolts and lock washers and new springs as well, along with new material on the clutch disc and the hub is very nice in this one also..."
My manual didn't have adjustment instructions, but someone from this site did earlier send me a pdf version that had expanded instructions for the G, B, C and CA. On page 37 of model CA it says "...Adjust the release bearing clearance by turning release actuator hub to the left until there is a .055" clearance between release bearing and clutch cover and install the set screw locking actuator is position."
I did order 2 new oil seals from Sandy Lake. Inside #70261958V $14.14 and Outside #70206449 $22.54. I damaged my old Outside oil seal when I drove the Shaft & Key out. I decided to go ahead a replace the Inside seal while I have it torn down.
Once I get the hand clutch installed and properly adjusted, I'll give you an update.
Dale
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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Dale (Stonelick)
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Posted: 18 May 2021 at 10:24pm |
This is a final update on the re-install of the hand clutch.
I replaced both the inner and outer oil seals. I had to buy a second outer oil seal because a burr in the opening damaged the first one. I followed the instructions on how to adjust the clutch tension before it was installed. I used anti seize on the shaft and the brake drum shaft hole before assembly to avoid problems for future owners. Was able to mount the final drive housing on the differential without problems. However, when I tried to mount the right rear wheel, the wheel axle hub would not turn so I could line up the lug holes. I think the bearing cover was put on too tight. Once I got this loosened up, was able to mount the rear wheel without problem. Drove the tractor with no problems noted. However, the hand clutch did not work.
I re-read the hand clutch adjustment instructions again. Instead of turning the "adjusting hub" to the left, this time I (a) turned it all the way to the right, to where the hand lever was frozen, (b) then I backed it off to the left until the hand lever action felt normal to me. Drove the tractor, and the hand clutch works fine - it is smooth as silk. Rick really did a nice job on the refurb - it was a lump of rust when I sent it to him.
I was concerned that I might have to remove the final drive housing to make these hand clutch adjustments. I did not. The set screw came out easily. The Adjusting Hub was easily turned by pushing the gears with a long screw driver.
Next I will finish painting the tractor. I'll leave the work on the hydraulics and draft control until later.
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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