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Best way to remove and replace pto oil seal on D14

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JayD-17(NY) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JayD-17(NY) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Best way to remove and replace pto oil seal on D14
    Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 9:19am
Pressure washed 60 years worth of grime, packed dirt , grease and gunk of my D14 and apparently, that was the only thing keeping the oil seal on the pto from leaking like a sieve....... 

Looking for advice on best methods to remove the old seal and put in a new one.

Is it going to be headache enough that it's worth picking up a  seal puller?

Thanks.


Edited by JayD-17(NY) - 21 Sep 2017 at 9:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 9:54am
At the dealership we used to keep a pto seal flange hanging on the wall and would install a new seal and o-ring in it on the bench using a punch to knock it out from the front of the flange. This allows you to make the switch quickly with minimal oil loss. I think we used a couple dowels to help line things up quickly and lots of grease to protect the seal. Look over the shaft for burrs that could ruin the new seal when sliding it on. Otherwise you could drain some oil to do it mess free.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JayD-17(NY) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 10:42am
So, the seal can't be removed/ pulled from the front, leaving the pto bolted in place ....... the whole pto assembly from the tractor has to removed?  or you're just saying it can but likely won't pull easily and its best to remove it all anyway?...by the time tmy seal gets here next week, I think all the oil is going to be out of it.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 12:58pm
What do you mean by front? The seal I'm referring to is at the rear and you remove the seal flange from the rear. Leave the shaft in, just pull the seal flange. There are just three bolts to remove. If it's leaking that bad and you don't want to lose your oil then park the tractor and drain oil into clean containers and wait for new seal and o-ring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JayD-17(NY) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 2:38pm
oh, alright, that sounds straight forward enough, thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 2:52pm
Yeah it's simple..if I can do it !!

DRAIN OIL FIRST !
I say AGIAN..
DRAIN OIL FIRST !!
if you don't well, let's just say I told you so....

Now, remove the 3 bolts and wiggle the casting off, replace seal, replace casting and 3 bolts, put oil in....
If there is room...slide an O-ring(or 2)  onto the PTO shaft before all the other steps. It acts like an oil slinger,keeping some oil away from seal. Well that's what I was told, made sense to me, course this was AFTER I'd done mine.....

Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 3:50pm
If you pressure washed around the seal, you best change the oil anyway. You probably blew water in past it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 4:14pm
Keeping some oil away from the seal with "slinger" O-rings???   Your advisor is pretty ignorant, because the seal is completely submerged in oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 4:37pm
Maybe not all tractor PTO shafts are submerged in oil ?
It might help with a worn PTO shaft at the seal from turning round and round for 50 years. I did see one shaft where it needed weld put on fill the groove,hate to think what a proper machine shop would charge for that and then turning down the PTO shaft to size.
I've also heard some put 2 seals in,again to 'find' good shaft to seal to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 6:14pm
no comment, JB IS TOO MUCH

Edited by DougG - 21 Sep 2017 at 6:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 7:40am
Is wacky tobacky legal in Canada Wink just kidding Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave43311 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2020 at 2:04pm
Is there a gasket that needs replaced when doing this?

Sorry to dredge up an old topic!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JayD-17(NY) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2020 at 5:29pm
I believe there will be a o-ring on the back side, if I recall right.....

It was pretty easy and simple seal to replace......

Though ,about a year later the rear axle seals started to leak like mad........Give a old tractor a thorough enough bath, and you'll be replacing every seal and gasket on the thing it seems! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 8:01am
Originally posted by Dave43311 Dave43311 wrote:

Is there a gasket that needs replaced when doing this?

Sorry to dredge up an old topic!
Just an O-ring and a seal. Pretty self evident once you see it apart. Make sure you put the seal facing the correct direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 8:03am
BTW looking back at my comments it almost looks like I was slighting our friendly Canuck, Jay. That certainly was not meant as anything more than a joking poke at a good guy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 9:36am
That's OK Lonn, heck you had to put up with Obama for EIGHT friggin YEARS !!!

rethinking the O-ring thing, it may have been to keep oil away from a worn groove just on the inside of the real PTO seal. I don't know how much 'front to back' slop there is,but I can 'see' wear there if the PTO was used a lot, or grit got in there.
yeah, I found out it's under oil, LOTS in my case as the RAM seals were less than perfect....Cry

all is good....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 11:34am
I have changed these seals with very little, if any, loss of oil.  We park the tractor on a very steep hump, with the rear wheels up hill.  BE SURE to adequately block the rear wheels and set the brake.  If necessary, letting the air out of the front tires will give some additional advantage.  
CLEAN the area before removing the three bolts and the plate.  As others have said, check the shaft for burrs.
If the fluid level is really high, have a drain pan handy.



Edited by Clay - 30 Jan 2020 at 11:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimNearFortWorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 11:52am
I did as Clay mentioned, large HD jack stands under rear axle housings but I had front wheels off and front hubs sitting on 2x4 pieces.
Very little oil loss and amazing how clean the old gal was inside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnkc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 12:01pm
where did you find that hill in Kansas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Clay Clay wrote:

I have changed these seals with very little, if any, loss of oil.  We park the tractor on a very steep hump, with the rear wheels up hill.  BE SURE to adequately block the rear wheels and set the brake.  If necessary, letting the air out of the front tires will give some additional advantage.  
CLEAN the area before removing the three bolts and the plate.  As others have said, check the shaft for burrs.
If the fluid level is really high, have a drain pan handy.

Did that once too on Dad's 190XT when he was out round baling for someone. It worked with just a little oil loss. If you are fast you can do it without the hill but if there is a hang up with getting it together it will be a mess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2020 at 10:14pm
Lots of hills in Kansas.  Just get a few miles off the interstate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred in Pa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2020 at 7:23am
 Just drain rear housing (probably needs to be anyway ) take the 3 bolts out of housing n remove plate leaving shaft in tractor .(this way u do not need to drain P/D housing )         
 Now u can polish the shaft where seal rides on it. .now put new seal in or I used these 2 seals pending shaft condition .
 
If u install 2 seals make sure u put grease between seals to lube back seal if front one seals on shaft.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2020 at 7:41am
hmm, I'm wondering if you replaced the bearing with a 'sealed' one, if that'd help reduce leakage? Remove the inner seal, keep out one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave43311 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2020 at 10:37am
Thanks for all of the replies and especially the photos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2020 at 10:02am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

hmm, I'm wondering if you replaced the bearing with a 'sealed' one, if that'd help reduce leakage? Remove the inner seal, keep out one.

If you did use a shielded bearing, I would definitely remove the inner shield so oil could easily get to the bearing, just not freely pass thru to the other side. Then your actual seal could possibly run dry, which wouldn't be a good thing for long term use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2020 at 10:06am
hmm, hadn't thought of that, dry seal....
though in my case ,not a big deal, PTO only used for rototilling 3-4 hrs a year..
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