| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Larry Miller 
Orange Level
Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Location: NWIL
Points: 901
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Best Heat Source?
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 12:41am |
|
What is the cheapest BTU heat source? I keep whole house cool (55) with Natural gas and spot heat a room w milk house heater which works for me but wondering which BTU is cheapest. I am in NC Illinois and don't know unit cost of gas or electric. LP higher cost than electric or Natural? (Nice to winter in Mesa tho)
|
|
I used to be young and stupid, now I am not young anymore.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4889
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 6:14am |
We just installed (electrical) mini-splits in our home. Because of the way our very old house is constructed, we ended up with three compressors (heat pumps), each on a 20 amp, 240 volt circuit and five "heads"; one in each bedroom (three), one in our "great room" (kitchen, dining room and living room) and one in our sunroom.
Our system was just under $10,000 installed.
The reason I went with the mini-splits was because of their efficiency, and the ability to individually control different rooms. Our system has a 22.5 SEER. It is supposed to heat down to -22F and also supplies cooling in the summer. It is very quiet for both heating and cooling, very efficient and, so far, works great. As of right now, I wouldn't change a thing if I had to do it over.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 85469
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 9:15am |
normally natural gas is the cheapest, then electric, then propane... dont know if you are on AMEREN or the old COMMON WEALTH EDISON company... Possible that electric will make you a "DEAL" on all electric and beat the NG price.... but propane is normally the most expensive ... more for "country" where you dont have access to the nat gas.... If your on a Rural Electric, it is possible that propane is competative with the elect, or slightly cheaper.
"IN TOWN" , electric might be $.12 a KWatt ........... with REA it could be $.20 ..... up the in the east ( NY - Jersey) its possible lto see $.25 per KW as they burn oil and not coal at the power plants.
Edited by steve(ill) - 10 Dec 2022 at 9:18am
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33121
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 9:57am |
|
REA here is $.12 kwh over winter, rises to $.14-.15kwh summer
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33121
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 10:02am |
|
Have been told by many around here wood is cheapest yet the $$ they spend cutting, hauling, saw repairs, new saws, electric to run blower in house all discounted or ignored.
Did the math at old house with a heat stove, cost was a little more than just running electric furnace. However, I do prefer the smell of a old school hardwood burning stove, and is a much drier heat.
|
|
fixer1958
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Location: kansas
Points: 2434
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 10:43am |
If you have to buy your firewood or pay to have it hauled it's not cost effective. I have a source here at home. Had the same chainsaw forever.
Once I start the fireplace and the furnace doesn't come on no matter what the weather I'm money ahead. Electric heat. Blower is a non-issue as far as energy consumption. It's a warmer heat than electric and dry air. Labor intensive but it depends on how bad you want it, I guess.
|
|
Darwin W. Kurtz
Orange Level
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Westphalia, KS
Points: 4860
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 10:53am |
|
We think your house stays warmer with wood......the way ours was set up it warms the floors from the basement ductwork.....which seems to keep house warmer than the gas heat
|
|
Tbone95
Orange Level Access
Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 11964
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 11:32am |
|
I figure wood is close to 1/3 the price of propane. And that’s with buying semi load of logs. Gas and saw oil is negligible. I hate my dang saw and pay to have it fixed. Yeah, I didn’t include that….so maybe 40% instead of 33%, still would take a LOT to come close to propane cost. And propane cost is very volatile, some years the savings would be much more.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33121
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 12:48pm |
|
Here I do have the woodlot, Wife tired of the mess of ash and dirt from hauled in wood. Have walnut tops, hickory and scrubby oak not good for much else. Locust burns too fierce, has a very oily composition much as hedge or osage orange which are a BEAR to cut with any saw. Small piece or pieces of Hedge or Locust in a already coaled fire will whiten up a glowing stove!!
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4889
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 4:23pm |
 DMiller wrote:
... Wife tired of the mess of ash and dirt from hauled in wood. |
x 2!
We both wanted a fireplace for many years. We put in an airtight fireplace several years ago and we are both tired of bringing in wood, the house being dusty and the mess.
We have decided that we will use up some of the wood we have and this will be the last year for the fireplace.
|
|
Lars(wi)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Permian Basin
Points: 7697
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 5:53pm |
|
LP has 92,000 btu per gallon
Nat Gas has 100,000 btu per therm
Fuel Oil has 140,000 btu per gallon
|
|
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
|
|
Trawler II
Orange Level Access
Joined: 04 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri
Points: 3440
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Dec 2022 at 6:29pm |
Propane vs. natural gas: BTUThe BTU of propane per gallon is 91,500. However, to adequately compare it to natural gas, we have to change the gallon to cubic foot. This is because natural gas only exists as a gas, while propane can exist as a gas and a liquid. For the BTU per cubic foot of propane, the amount is 2,516BTU, while for natural gas, it is 1,030BTU. Thus as you can see, propane contains more energy than natural gas—more than twice. And in an hour, you will use approximately 2.4 more cubic feet of natural gas than propane.
|
|
"Most people find it easier to believe a simple lie, than the complex truth"
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33121
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 5:48am |
NG can exist as a Super Compressed gas or a Liquid (Supercooled) in transport. Need to research the product further. LNG is safest way to ship by water. CNG is supplied to Compressed Gas Fueled Turbine Power Stations, is in hundreds to over 1000psig supply pressure, for Home or Site distributions is reduced to Water Column pressures, much of the time less than .25psig.
Natural gas (Methane) requires a larger overall volume to create the same amount of heat, is a lower btu by volume by a factor of 10. Natural gas by nature is a Corrosive material. Have noted before where a simple cycle Combustion Turbine Gen station of 80mw uses more gas PER SECOND, than an average home uses in a Year.
|
|
Tbone95
Orange Level Access
Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 11964
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 7:41am |
|
Have never hauled a single piece of wood into the new house, the wood fire is outside. 😎. For the twice a year we want a fire, we flick a switch on the wall and enjoy 😊
|
|
fixer1958
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Location: kansas
Points: 2434
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 7:56am |
DMiller wrote:
Here I do have the woodlot, Wife tired of the mess of ash and dirt from hauled in wood. Have walnut tops, hickory and scrubby oak not good for much else. Locust burns too fierce, has a very oily composition much as hedge or osage orange which are a BEAR to cut with any saw. Small piece or pieces of Hedge or Locust in a already coaled fire will whiten up a glowing stove!! |
I burn hedge primarily and throw in ash and walnut and some oak in the early part of the cold weather season. Yeah you can burn your house down with hedge but you have to control your air and flue settings. That's my take on firewood. If I had to buy it or haul it more than a 1/4 mile I wouldn't do it.
|
|
Codger
Orange Level
Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
Points: 2198
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 8:31am |
I heat my shop when needed with a waste oil fired boiler. This fuel is given to me and I have the means to retrieve, transport, and store the product. I welded two baffles into a trailer mounted 1000 gallon fuel barrel, and use this with a dual diaphragm pump to transfer into or out of this tank with. I built the boiler myself and use a couple of pumps originally specified for hot tub usage to endure the heated water. It works well but requires cleaning about once a month during the heating season. About a five minute job to do and the boiler also supplies domestic hot water through a dedicated second heating coil.
I have cost in running the electric pumps and the burner assembly, but it's neglible in comparison to fuel gas, (lpg) purchases if I went that way. I do have a 400k BTU hanging unit heater as a backup as I'm not a believer in a single source heating supply.
I don't live on the shop property but am readying to relocate. The desire is to bring both home and shop together and this requires another piece of real estate. I will use the same analogy with the new house and shop construction with insulated piping buried in a concrete trench, (vault) from the boiler room to both the shop, and house with each zoned separate from one other. I have proven this design over 20 years now and no problems so far. I'm sure the parts are tired so do not really plan to reutilize much of the current install.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 85469
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 8:40am |
|
propane vs natural gas is normally defined by LOCATION... We live in the country, 10 miles from town.. We have a 500 gallon propane tank as Nat Gas IS NOT AVAILABLE this far from town..... When we live in town we had Nat Gas heat / hot water/ stove... That is what is available IN TOWN... I have NEVER seen a propane tank in town .. Some cities will not allow a tank of that size setting on residential property..... So what you use is probably determined by LOCATION.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Dale (Stonelick)
Bronze Level
Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Location: Stonelick, Ohio
Points: 182
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 10:32am |
https://www.ganjing.com/video/1fb9elanneg6XL6e23kpitYDz18v1c
A Quora question I read asked how ancient cultures kept warm in extremely cold climates. The attached video reviews that in Korea they used floor heat. A wood fire pit, flues, and chimney were all below floor level.
|
|
1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
|
|
NDBirdman
Orange Level Access
Joined: 30 Jul 2011
Location: ND
Points: 1429
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 11:10am |
We use whole house LP. Several of the small rooms have elec. baseboard heaters to keep room temps up a tad as needed (bedrooms) as whole house is heated to 66-68 degrees. A couple times during winter we loose electricity. Those times, I fire up the fireplace, other-wise, it's only used for nights sitting in front of it enjoying a bottle of wine. Wood creates lots of ashes that must be cleaned, seasoned wood must be used for clean/non-sparking showers of embers. Bout half our wood comes from our place so easy to cut/haul/store ~50 yards from the house. It heats me up processing the wood, hauling it into the house and as it burns. Buying or hauling from long distance is not economically sound, burning wood now adays is more about nostalgia, way too many ways to heat a house/workshop. IMHO I will say that when LP hit $5 a gallon, our fireplace helped keep the outrageous price of LP refills down alot.
|
|
1955 WD45 S#205467, 190XT #6652 DXT
|
|
200Tom1
Orange Level
Joined: 03 Jun 2019
Location: Iowa
Points: 1232
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 2:02pm |
|
Here, electric is defiantly the highest priced then propane and a little less is natural gas. I burn wood in the hot tub room.
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 24334
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 2:05pm |
Highest price 'heat source' would be pretty callgirl..... 
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
DaveKamp
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 5957
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Dec 2022 at 2:17am |
Jay... I think being married is not only more costly, it's not as long-lasting... 
But seriously, a guy asks 'what is the lowest-cost heat source'...
That's really not an answerable question, because there's absolutely no context to constrain it...
but that being case, there's only ONE answer:
A clean window with open drapery.
In my case, my south sunporch. Sun's up, it provides almost half the house's heat. Sun goes down, it doesn't... but aside from the building investment, it doesn't cost me a dime to gather that heat.
EVERY method of heating has it's benefits, and it's problems... it's costs, and it's outputs. NONE of them matter if 1) you cannot practically DO it or 2) you have such a lossy structure that you need way more than you SHOULD to maintain comfort.
An example of the first, is setting up a woodburning stove in the middle of a field in western Dakota plains... where the nearest tree is 17 miles away...
Another, is trying to heat with natural gas in say... Connecticut... where the market is exclusively electric or heating oil... or trying to heat in my rural Iowa with Natural Gas, when the municipal pipelines just don't reach within 6 miles of the house... or heating with Propane in downtown Chicago (street punks would have a field day doing drive-bys)... or finally... heating with an open fire, in a dry grass hut...
So narrow out the context of the situation, so you can get better answers... and mebbie Jay will post some pix of his 'high priced' home heating solutions...
Edited by DaveKamp - 12 Dec 2022 at 2:17am
|
|
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4889
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Dec 2022 at 5:24am |
200Tom1 wrote:
Here, electric is defiantly the highest priced then propane and a little less is natural gas. I burn wood in the hot tub room. |
That is probably true if you are using an electric heating element (although high oil prices might make electric a lot more competitive) but using a "heat pump", with a compressor supplying the heating / cooling is much more efficient.
As with all heating / cooling systems, there are pros and cons, but heat pumps make electric a much more viable option.
|
|
Armand(AZ)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Points: 858
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Dec 2022 at 7:26am |
|
Hey Larry, I live in Mesa. Stop over for a visit. Armand
|
|
