B Sluggish Starter

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   After I overhauled my B back in 2016, the starter was slow to turn it over. I figured being a new engine and having a lot more compression, maybe that was normal during the break-in process. Then shortly after, winter arrived and it was still sluggish. I figured that was because it was so cold, and the engine had straight SAE 30 in it. After winter came summer, and it was still sluggish. (By sluggish I mean it goes "wump........whump...(dead silence for a couple seconds).....wump.) I know my battery is being charged, as when it's  running there are about 7 volts at the posts. It is also a new battery. I know it's good, because I used it in my '51 Chevy, and it turned it over really fast. I'm thinking I need to take the starter in and have it checked. What do you guys recommend? 
In the mean time I've quit using the starter and just crank it. Usually starts on the second pull, so it's not too bad. I'd just like the starter to be functional, in case it's needed. 

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CrestonM Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8454	Post Options Post Reply Quote CrestonM Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: B Sluggish Starter Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 3:37pm
	After I overhauled my B back in 2016, the starter was slow to turn it over. I figured being a new engine and having a lot more compression, maybe that was normal during the break-in process. Then shortly after, winter arrived and it was still sluggish. I figured that was because it was so cold, and the engine had straight SAE 30 in it. After winter came summer, and it was still sluggish. (By sluggish I mean it goes "wump........whump...(dead silence for a couple seconds).....wump.) I know my battery is being charged, as when it's running there are about 7 volts at the posts. It is also a new battery. I know it's good, because I used it in my '51 Chevy, and it turned it over really fast. I'm thinking I need to take the starter in and have it checked. What do you guys recommend? In the mean time I've quit using the starter and just crank it. Usually starts on the second pull, so it's not too bad. I'd just like the starter to be functional, in case it's needed.

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Dick L Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dick L Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 3:56pm
	Where does it get warm to the touch when cranking it over. Could be loosing the ground. Try taking the starter position locking stud out and shining the end with a file or grinder then making sure it is in real tight. If the starter was weak when it stalled out when cranking and the voltage continued to it you would most likely see smoke. A loose connection will fry itself to an connection and then loose it again. If it is not getting hot at the battery connections or where the ground to battery wire fastens to the tractor at the post then my guess is the locking stud which is where the starter gets its ground thru the tractor. You wouldn't feel much heat in that area.

CrestonM Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8454	Post Options Post Reply Quote CrestonM Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 4:25pm
	I'll check it out when I'm home next weekend. Thanks, Dick!

Alberta Phil Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Points: 3912	Post Options Post Reply Quote Alberta Phil Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 6:11pm
	Your starter bushings may be worn out allowing the armature to drag on the field coils. Might be time for a re-build.

LeonR2013 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500	Post Options Post Reply Quote LeonR2013 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 6:23pm
	Both excellent suggestions. You might also check with a volt meter and see what kind of voltage the starter is pulling. Also check your timing. If timing is off you can have this problem.

Steve in NJ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11990	Post Options Post Reply Quote Steve in NJ Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 7:28pm
	I offer rebuilding services if interested Creston. If you went in an out turning over and engine for all those years as that thing did, you'd need a rebuild yourself! LOL! Drop me a PM if interested. I completely rebuild em' with new or rewound Armatures in em' n' all. Steve@B&B
	39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife

Gerald J. Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gerald J. Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 7:46pm
	Battery cables from a walmart battery kiosk are way too skinny for a 6 volt starter. Can't afford volts of drop, they need to be more like 0 or 00 not 4 gauge that will spin a small 12 volt starter and small car engine. Battery posts need to be cleaned twice a year in a 6 volt system, they corrode and the post and the connector both need to be cleaned until they shine, with a knife blade or a post cleaning brush or tool made for the purpose. Those posts can go a couple years in a 12 volt system between cleaning. Starters do wear, brushes wear and loose spring pressure to make good contact with the commutator (and trying they can roughen the commutator surface). Bearings wear and the magnetic forces will make the armature drag on a field pole and that absorbs lots of the starter power. Windings can overheat and damage the insulation of the wires leaking to current losses from the windings. Gerald J.

Stan R Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Location: MA Points: 992	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stan R Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 7:58pm
	And why not use 10W-30? 30W is so '60's!!

CrestonM Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8454	Post Options Post Reply Quote CrestonM Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 8:18pm
	Gerald, yes, I'm aware of the cable requirements. It has good thick cables on it, not Walmart specials. I also cleaned the terminals a couple months ago. Stan, why not go John Deere? Allis-Chalmers is so 1985...Lol

Ted J Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18943	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ted J Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 11:24am
	Creston, take it out of the B and put it in a vise. Put jumper cables on it and give it a whirl. Literally......LOL If it sounds funny at all, it needs work. If it pops and then slows down, it needs work. I don't suppose there is a auto parts store close to you? Most of them will test it for you for free. The only thing hard about them is getting the brushes back in and you can do that easy enough with some toothpicks. You could take a look at it and see what's wrong. I agree with Alberta Phil. I'm betting it needs rebuilding and you need to do it ASAP before you burn out the field coils (windings) or wear down the armature too much to where it won't function. Also the commutator can get plugged with the wear from the brushes and short out. NORMALLY it's just the brushes and possibly the brush holder is touching the comutator grounding it out. That's SO easy to check out and if you're in there, replace the bronze armature bushings too. I KNOW you can handle it. It HAS to be the starter, as it turns over easily when you crank it and it starts right off, so it's not the timing or anything with the motor. My guess is brushes and bushings. Not the cables or timing or anything else. At least I'D start with tearing it apart, cleaning, inspecting and new inner parts, including the springs. Good Luck!
	"Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17

LeonR2013 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500	Post Options Post Reply Quote LeonR2013 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 2:31pm
	If you pull the armature out, look at the copper windings and see if the coating is in good shape. Cracked or chipped can cause a problem.

CrestonM Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8454	Post Options Post Reply Quote CrestonM Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 6:49pm
	Thanks guys. I did a basic rebuild on the starter for my 8N back in 2014 so I have a little experience doing that. By no means an expert though. That one flat out quit after one of the brush soldering broke. Ted, I do have a few auto stores nearby, so I may take it there if I don't get anything testing it on the bench.

Ranse Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Location: Tennessee Points: 775	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ranse Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 8:52pm
	I'm a moron when it comes to electrical issues, but my D10 was doing the same thing, before and after the overhaul. I had the starter rebuild and that made a major difference. Before the engine would barely turn over and over and over... Now it don't seem to even make a complete revolution before it starts.