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Brian Jasper co. Ia 
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
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 Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 9:38pm |
 CrestonM wrote:
To answer a few questions...The oil filter tube is sticking up the right amount (It used to be too far down, and no oil came out). I am using the proper cotton packed filter. Filling the pump with grease was just something a guy that worked as a technician for A-C from the 50s till the late 70s told me to do. I did it on my 8N as well.
Also...Something weird happened today....A friend came over because he wanted to see it run, since I overhauled it. I started it up, and while it was cranking I noticed the pressure jumped up to the "A". (What in the world? My eyes are playing tricks.) Then after it starts I bring it to 3/4 throttle and it goes down a bit, but it stays steady at the "M"! It stayed that way the whole time I ran it, except it went down a tad when I brought it to low idle. Not sure what happened, but the pressure sure jumped up! I didn't change anything either. Hmmm |
What kind of grease did you use? Gun grease or wheel bearing grease? Packing any oil pump with grease is poor practice. Assembly lube is better, but the best method is ordinary engine oil. That grease has to be forced through the engine oil passages before oil gets through to do it's job. Any grease will slow the oil from getting where it needs to be. Assembly lube quickly dissolves in oil, but still doesn't flow like oil does. Professional engine builders will use assembly lube on bearings, push rods, rockers and prime the oil pump with oil before installation.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Location: Prairie City Ia
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 9:42pm |
CrestonM wrote:
Here's a photo of the gauge when running about 3/4 throttle. |
My CA usually runs between the O and R, however it has always had Mobil 1 0-20 in it so I could get it started below 0 when it was my main snow mover.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 10:08pm |
Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:
CrestonM wrote:
To answer a few questions...The oil filter tube is sticking up the right amount (It used to be too far down, and no oil came out). I am using the proper cotton packed filter. Filling the pump with grease was just something a guy that worked as a technician for A-C from the 50s till the late 70s told me to do. I did it on my 8N as well.
Also...Something weird happened today....A friend came over because he wanted to see it run, since I overhauled it. I started it up, and while it was cranking I noticed the pressure jumped up to the "A". (What in the world? My eyes are playing tricks.) Then after it starts I bring it to 3/4 throttle and it goes down a bit, but it stays steady at the "M"! It stayed that way the whole time I ran it, except it went down a tad when I brought it to low idle. Not sure what happened, but the pressure sure jumped up! I didn't change anything either. Hmmm |
What kind of grease did you use? Gun grease or wheel bearing grease? Packing any oil pump with grease is poor practice. Assembly lube is better, but the best method is ordinary engine oil. That grease has to be forced through the engine oil passages before oil gets through to do it's job. Any grease will slow the oil from getting where it needs to be. Assembly lube quickly dissolves in oil, but still doesn't flow like oil does. Professional engine builders will use assembly lube on bearings, push rods, rockers and prime the oil pump with oil before installation. |
Oops...Guess I won't do that again. I used gun grease. I guess my thought was the grease wouldn't leak out and back down to the pan. Grease would stay put. Lesson learned.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 10:15pm |
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Your all right Creston... not a big problem. Grease is not the best to use, but like you said, LOTS OF OLD GUYS DID IT !! ........ I would run the tractor for an hour and let everything break in and settle out. You may be getting some initial wear in, and the filter is becoming oil soaked... Things might change slightly after a little run time..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 11:21pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
You may be getting some initial wear in, and the filter is becoming oil soaked... Things might change slightly after a little run time.. |
Change as in less oil pressure or more oil pressure?
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Dick L
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 6:00am |
Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:
Dick L wrote:
Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:
Worn cam bearings and main bearings. |
On this engine bearing clearance has nothing to do with oil pressure. All bearings in the bottom end is oiled from the holes in the hollow camshaft that never is under pressure. The plunger in the end only blocks up enough oil to make sure the front of the hollow camshaft has plenty of oil to be slung out from spinning called centrifugal force. |
No disrespect intended Dick, but that is incorrect. The mains are pressure fed off the cam. Check out the size of the holes in the cam journals. Remember, the cam turns half the speed of the crank. With the slow turning cam, there is little centrifugal force exerted. The holes that squirt oil into the rods are quite small compared to the holes in the cam journals. Connecting rod bearing clearance has no effect on oil pressure, worn cam and mains very much does. |
It has nothing to do with respect. The camshaft bearings and main bearings are oiled from the center of the camshaft where there is no pressure from the oil pump. To have pressure inside the hollow camshaft you would need to have a pressure relief valve at the opposite end of the pump. All that is the end of the camshaft is the plunger that does not seal off the oil to build pressure. The camshaft for the D10 thru D15 has a ball check at the timing gear end of the camshaft which does pressurize the center and does oil the camshaft. That pressure intern oils the camshaft bearings then to the main bearings where the crankshaft is drilled to oil the rod bearings. That camshaft can be switched with the B if you want the camshaft bearings but you would then need to drill the crankshaft to oil the rod bearings. To do this successful you would then need to use the higher volume oil pump from a D10 thru D15 which will bolt up in the B. That oil pump does not have the pressure relief ball in the pump stem. So no one should get the idea they could solve an oil pressure problem by using a D10 thru D15 oil pump as it can not build pressure without the D10 thru D15 camshaft.
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Allis dave
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 7:01am |
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How long have you ran it so far after putting in the new pump? Maybe all that grease finally got mixed in with the oil that was blocking flow.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 7:08am |
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How long since I put in the pump? About 30 minutes. Long enough to bring it up to temp for a little while.
Edited by CrestonM - 26 Sep 2016 at 7:09am
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CAL(KS)
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 8:07am |
id say stop worrying about it. 
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Dick L
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 10:59am |
CAL(KS) wrote:
id say stop worrying about it. |
I totally agree.
Say that the spring that Norm put in the stem was not quite as strong as the original and your oil pressure was on O rather than N it would mean that you would have more oil going into the center of the camshaft because of the less resistance. It takes resistance to build pressure. With this system you only have two resistance points, the spring and ball in the pump stem and the filter.
On this type of lube system you only need pressure at the gage to know you are getting oil from the pump and to lube the rocker arms. If it wasn't for the filter and head the only thing to be concerned about would be ample volume to the center of the camshaft. Monitoring that would be a problem without some type of gage. You could get that volume without the ball and spring in the stem but then would not have oil going thru the filter and to the rocker arm assembly.
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George R. (MN)
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 2:41pm |
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It looks to me like you've got good pressure. My CA has ran between N & O for years when your running 3/4 throttle. At idle it drops to just below the N. Has ran like that for the past 40 years!
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My tractor is not leaking oil, it's just marking it's territory!
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corbinstein
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 7:08am |
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I'm just happy mine has oil pressure at all!
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Dmpaul89
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 7:32am |
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as long as the needle twitches when i gun it, i run it!
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Chalmersbob
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 10:25pm |
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Brian, Dick is correct in what he said about the bearings. They are NOT pressurized but are splash fed. The oil filter is the only thing that will raise the oil pressure. The cam is also NOT pressurized. It is fed by oil coming out of the pressure relief valve built into the drive end of the oil pump. That oil travels through the cam, dripping oil on the connecting rods and the mains and the remainder lubes the timing gears. Bob
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4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S,
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BenGiBoy
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 7:24am |
Dmpaul89 wrote:
as long as the needle twitches when i gun it, i run it! |
  LOL....
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'39 Model B
Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that!
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CrestonM
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Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 9:42pm |
Well drat...I don't know what happened...I started it today and for a few minutes the needle went up pretty high.
I was driving around feeling pretty proud I had good oil pressure, then I look down and it's sitting right on the N. Phffff!!! What could've happened??? I don't understand. It started really low, went up really high for a couple days, and now it's back way down. I'm stumped. Any help/ideas appreciated. Thanks
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Dan73
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Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 9:50pm |
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Has Shameless been sneaking around? He commented that he had time on his hands.
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Dan73
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Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 9:58pm |
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I am in the don't worry about it. These old motors where really designed with alot more overkill then the modern stuff. I think if the oil pressure is anywhere in the normal zone it is good.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 10:02pm |
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Start it back up tomorrow morning and it will be high again. Good Lord boy, the oil warms up and the pressure goes down !!! nothing new about that !! get some duct tape and cover up the gauge so you can't see it.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 10:32pm |
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I know oil gets thinner as it warms up, but I didn't expect it to drop that much. I figured it'd drop to the R-M range, but not all the way to N. Guess it's normal after all. We'll see what happens tomorrow.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 10:50pm |
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Are you still running the straight SAE 30 or multi viscosity ? BIG difference in the 30wt when hot and cold.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 10:56pm |
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Straight weight.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 11:55pm |
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PM Dr Tom and Don Bradley and listen to what they tell you. They're both former A-C dealer mechanics.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Dan73
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Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 11:58pm |
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Silly boy why would you run straight w
30? They made that 10 30 for a reason it will help extend your motor life as the weather gets cold.
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 6:31am |
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Plus the additives in the modern oil will keep the engine cleaner and protect the bearings from corrosion from water in the oil making the steel against copper into a shorted battery.
Gerald J.
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Dick L
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Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 6:58am |
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TREVMAN
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Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 11:36am |
Creston, put a 0-30 gauge on, then you know what you got...If you got 15 psi at full throttle, you will run that engine for another 70 years no issue. I bet you have more than 15. As well pressure and flow are not the same thing. The old engines were designed with lots of volume, I think you are o.k. here.
A word of advice...I just turned 50 about 2 hours ago...Go chase some of them healthy farm girls for a while, never mind the oil pressure on your B, its just fine. Trev.
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BenGiBoy
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Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 1:42pm |
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Should he be worried about the additives in the 10-30 oil plugging up a oil hole passage somewhere? (by removing 50 years of crud....then depositing it somewhere)
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'39 Model B
Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that!
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Dan73
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Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 1:44pm |
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Nope it will come out when he changes the oil would be good for the motor.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 5:36pm |
I thought he just rebuilt the motor.. Everything is clean and new..( guess it was just the oil pump ?)......... Just needs to take the SAE30 out and put in 10w 30 and should have a more constant pressure when cold - hot. ......... I think he did good and should be in GREAT SHAPE !!
Monitor the oil condition after 10-12 hours and if its cleaning out crud, change it out again. 10w 30 detergent oil is a good thing.
Edited by steve(ill) - 01 Oct 2016 at 5:39pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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