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CrestonM 
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 Topic: B Low Oil Pressure...Still
Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 11:09pm |
Well I'm a little bummed out. I have been told a lot that the only 2 things that affect oil pressure in a B/C/CA is 1. The condition of the pump. 2. The type of filter (With the right amount of restriction).
Well...I went ahead and got a rebuilt and re-machined pump from Norm Meinert, and I did an oil change and installed a Wix 57011 filter, like I've always ran in the B and G. Ok, getting pretty excited! Hit the starter, wait for the pressure to build...excitment is building as the needle rises...but then it stops at the "O". Dagnabbit!! I'm at a loss. I'm running SAE 30 weight oil. What now? Any advice? I figured it shoul've come up to at least the "R". Thanks
Edited by CrestonM - 24 Sep 2016 at 11:11pm
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 2:20am |
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Worn cam bearings and main bearings.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Hubnut
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 6:18am |
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Creston,
I think you're fine. I've bought several pumps from Norm and all were in perfect shape. Have you tried changing gauges? Even so, at the "O" would seem to be okay. It's still in the Normal range.
Steve
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1940 B "Lucy"
1941 B w/ Woods L59 "Flavia"
1942 B w/ finish mower "Dick"
1941 C w/ 3-point "Maggie"
1947 C SFW w/ L306 "Trixie"
1972 314H
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AaronSEIA
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 6:22am |
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Might try a numbered gauge and see just what that gets you.
AaronSEIA
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B26240
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 6:38am |
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Creston I think you are OK with a "O" reading, enjoy the tractor. Mark
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 7:51am |
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My C has been running on the O since 1986 when I put it together. As long as it moves in to that little block around the normal word you've got enough pressure to keep the engine happy. Its possible the plunger or the spring is missing from the front of your camshaft. That is how excess oil pressure is relived in that engine.My CA didn't have a spring and it always had very low pressure. I put a new plunger and spring in and the pressure has been at the R ever since. Or the cork plugs in the rocker shaft are damaged or missing.
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Dick L
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 8:58am |
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Did you prime the pump?
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 10:17am |
 Dick L wrote:
Did you prime the pump?
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Yes, I pumped grease into it, and filled the stem with oil.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 10:19am |
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Edit
Edited by CrestonM - 25 Sep 2016 at 2:01pm
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 10:21am |
I'm just confused because it's reading just a teeny tiny bit better than when I had my old pump on. Like it didn't hardly make a difference.
Would adding a quart of Lucas oil stabilizer help? It says on the bottle it helps boost pressure. What is that stuff anyway? Just thick oil? How else could it boost pressure?
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DougS
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 10:26am |
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Tear the engine down. Rebuild it. Don't be surprised if you still have the same oil pressure.
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Stan IL&TN
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 10:36am |
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I don't see a problem here.
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 11:32am |
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Lucas oil stabilizer is very high viscosity oil. I doubt it is good for any engine.
Gerald J.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 12:33pm |
DougS wrote:
Tear the engine down. Rebuild it. Don't be surprised if you still have the same oil pressure.
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I just did that over the summer.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 12:36pm |
Gerald J. wrote:
Lucas oil stabilizer is very high viscosity oil. I doubt it is good for any engine.
Gerald J.
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If it's high viscosity oil, would that make the engine wear faster? Since it causes more resistance?
On a side note...grandpa knew a guy who had a Gleaner pull type with a Ford model A engine on it, and the guy only ran 10 weight oil in it! He used it for years that way and never had a problem.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 1:51pm |
First, it would be better in general to run 10w30 motor oil and not straight 30 wt. You will have trouble with the cool weather. 10w 30 is fine year rounds.
Second, the motor is not all splash lubed, just partial.. During your rebuild, remember the oil pump is pumping down a hollow cam shaft. The cam shaft has several holes. 4 of the holes point at the bottom of the pistons and they spray oil on the piston and connecting rod and drips down to the journal on the crank for the rod.... there are also 3 other holes in the cam shaft that go into the cam bearings so they are pressure lubed, not splashed... there are also internal ports from the cam to the 3 crankshaft main bearings so those three are also pressure fed. So in effect, the connecting rods are splashed and the mains/ cams bearings are pressure fed. So yes, wear on the bearings can cause loss of pressure....... more important during a rebuild is to get the piping to the oil pump from the screen tight and sealed up so you don't get air suction. SEcond is the 1/4 inch tube in the filter housing - hole in top of tube can be oversize or worn. Larger hole bleads more oil into filter and sends less to the lube system .. slightly lower pressure ......... third lime mentioned above is the plug at front end of the cam shaft can have excessive leakage............ I would try a number gauge for test if your troubled.. or just keep an eye on it and see that you have the "O" needle forever.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 1:52pm |
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I have one motor that has a little "extra" clearance inside and I use 10w40 in it... no difference in winter, and you gain 2-3 psi in the summer.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 1:59pm |
Creston, if you didn't see this clip about straight SAE 30 oil yesterday, then watch it now. This is why nobody recommends straight weight oils anymore.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 2:07pm |
That is interesting. Luckily, all my engines are in an insulated barn at night, so it never gets very cold inside. However, maybe multi-viscosity is the way to go.
I did replace the main bearings and shimmed them to spec, so I should be good there. If the cam bearings actually affect pressure, that's the only thing I didn't do. How hard is it to pull a camshaft? That may be a winter project.
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DougS
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 2:09pm |
CrestonM wrote:
On a side note...grandpa knew a guy who had a Gleaner pull type with a Ford model A engine on it, and the guy only ran 10 weight oil in it! He used it for years that way and never had a problem. |
40 years ago I had an old man, and an old man to me is an ancient man to you, tell me that he ran out of oil with his Model A and dumped hot lard into it and ran it for over 100 miles before getting some "real" oil. No apparent damage. That doesn't mean there wasn't some extraordinary wear. Those old engines were built very loose at that factory. You can't even compare them to a 1948 tractor.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:02pm |
I did replace the main bearings and shimmed them to spec, so I should be good there. If the cam bearings actually affect pressure, that's the only thing I didn't do. How hard is it to pull a camshaft? That may be a winter project.
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-You seem to be very detail oriented. I would guess your cam bearings are fine. They are only 3 of them and an extra thousandth clearance if there, is not a big deal.
I would change to 10w30 motor oil.
I would put an number gauge on temporarily and see what pressure you really have.
I would check the 1/4 inch tube in the filter and see if cracked or damaged on the end
You rnew filter is packed cotton right, not paper mesh ?
You might be running 12 psi and not 15 psi --- NO PROBLEM.
I think you are fine, maybe just a little over concerned with the pressure.
If the pressure stays at "O" for the next 40 years, you will be fine.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:05pm |
You just overhauled the engine, don't dump any oil additive in till you get the rings seated
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Dick L
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:44pm |
CrestonM wrote:
Dick L wrote:
Did you prime the pump?
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Yes, I pumped grease into it, and filled the stem with oil. |
What were you trying to clog up with the grease?
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Dick L
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:50pm |
Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:
Worn cam bearings and main bearings. |
On this engine bearing clearance has nothing to do with oil pressure. All bearings in the bottom end is oiled from the holes in the hollow camshaft that never is under pressure. The plunger in the end only blocks up enough oil to make sure the front of the hollow camshaft has plenty of oil to be slung out from spinning called centrifugal force.
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WDDave
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 6:58pm |
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Pressure on the "O" doesn't sound bad to me.
I have 10W-40 in my WD and my pressure went from no higher than the "O" to the "L" or may even be above that if that is all the higher the gauge will read.
As far as I know mine has never had new bearings like yours has.
I'm concerned this is to high especially for winter so after talking with the guys on here I am going with 10W-30.
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Ted in NE-OH
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 7:18pm |
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If the center tube that inserts into the oil filter is pushed too far down in the casting, it can cut off the oil supply or partially cut it off. If it is missing that will also cause low oil pressure.
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CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 8:53pm |
To answer a few questions... The oil filter tube is sticking up the right amount (It used to be too far down, and no oil came out). I am using the proper cotton packed filter. Filling the pump with grease was just something a guy that worked as a technician for A-C from the 50s till the late 70s told me to do. I did it on my 8N as well.
Also...Something weird happened today....A friend came over because he wanted to see it run, since I overhauled it. I started it up, and while it was cranking I noticed the pressure jumped up to the "A". (What in the world? My eyes are playing tricks.) Then after it starts I bring it to 3/4 throttle and it goes down a bit, but it stays steady at the "M"! It stayed that way the whole time I ran it, except it went down a tad when I brought it to low idle. Not sure what happened, but the pressure sure jumped up! I didn't change anything either. Hmmm
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 9:26pm |
Dick L wrote:
Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:
Worn cam bearings and main bearings. |
On this engine bearing clearance has nothing to do with oil pressure. All bearings in the bottom end is oiled from the holes in the hollow camshaft that never is under pressure. The plunger in the end only blocks up enough oil to make sure the front of the hollow camshaft has plenty of oil to be slung out from spinning called centrifugal force. |
No disrespect intended Dick, but that is incorrect. The mains are pressure fed off the cam. Check out the size of the holes in the cam journals. Remember, the cam turns half the speed of the crank. With the slow turning cam, there is little centrifugal force exerted. The holes that squirt oil into the rods are quite small compared to the holes in the cam journals. Connecting rod bearing clearance has no effect on oil pressure, worn cam and mains very much does.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 9:30pm |
And I'm reading everything everyone says, not knowing much to begin with, and getting more and more confused! 
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CrestonM
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 9:32pm |
Here's a photo of the gauge when running about 3/4 throttle.
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