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Anyone a engine mechanic for WD45?

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Burns-Tractor-Sales View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:20am
I have a WD45 with loader, I was out moving some dirt around, I parked the tractor for 10 minutes, I went to restart the tractor and it would not start? It fires and the second I let off the starter it quits? here are the things I have done.

Rebuilt and Cleaned Carburetor.
Mag tested good for spark.
Has good clean gas.
I put oil down the cylinders.
Checked valves and all are opening and closing as they should.
put in a set of new spark plugs.
it is getting plenty of gas to the plugs.

The tractor has never burned any oil, so I wouldn't think it would be the rings,
when I pull out a spark plug it is wet with gas, so I should be getting fuel?
the tractor has always ran great with no troubles until now.
If any one has any ideas please let me know,


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David Gibson (OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Gibson (OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:26am
Check to see if you have coolant in the oil. It might be a cracked block or blown head gasket.
David Gibson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:27am
First thing I'd check is if it had spark. I'd take out a spark plug, or all of them, attach them to the spark plug wires with the bases resting on a grounded part, and use the starter to whirl the engine over. You should see good spark at each of the spark plugs. If not, you know that the problem exists in the ignition system. That would be the first place to look.
If you have good spark, then you have to examine to see if you have compression, proper amount of gas (carburation) and unblocked exhaust.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:28am
My first guess would be to check for a ground somewhere.  Try the On/Off switch first.  Wires on coil, inside mag, wires running to and from.  Next, have you checked the points for spark and wear?  Replace the condenser?  Sounds like everything else is covered, gotta be an electrical problem...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:28am
In re-reading your post, do you think the engine is flooded (too much gas)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:43am
Does it backfire when you are trying to start it? If so is the mag cap cracked or showing carbon tracks? Is the fuel flow sufficient to the carb? Your sure there is no water in the gas? Or accidentally poured in a can of kerosene? BTDT.

Edited by Lonn - 01 Jun 2011 at 11:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:44am
If this tractor fires when the starter is cranking and if it has a 12 volt battery it could be a bad resistor that cuts the ignition voltage to 6 volt when running 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by Gordy Gordy wrote:

If this tractor fires when the starter is cranking and if it has a 12 volt battery it could be a bad resistor that cuts the ignition voltage to 6 volt when running 

IH used that system but A WD doesn't unless the mag is converted to external coil and battery ignition and has the key switch and wiring that bypasses the resistor when starting. I don't know of any Allis that used that system. Just so you know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Burns-Tractor-Sales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 12:59pm
There is spark on every plug, gas is clean and I put a additive in it to make sure there was no water.
The mag has been converted over to an external coil but don't think that has anything to do with it because it is giving of a really big blue spark on every plug.
It does sometime backfire out the carburetor.
There is no fluid in the oil, so it shouldn't be the heads or block.
Every one I talk to around here have no clue what happened?
I have had several people look at it and no one can figure it out?
Thanks for everyone's help


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wkpoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 1:52pm
I agree it could be flooded. Maybe needle seat isn't tight or float drops. Either way easy thing to check for. Shut off gas supply and drain carb bowl. Then crack engine for a minute to see if it clears and tried to light off. If so open supply and on you go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rfdeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 1:53pm
   We'll you got fuel and fire. If you were using it and it was running fine it was surely in time. Has compression. The only thing left is air. Have you taken the hose off the carb from the air cleaner and tryed it ?
Randy Freshour,Member Indiana AC Partners,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 1:54pm
I'd say that ignition is not the problem. You might want to check the timing, though.
If it is backfiring out of the carb, you might have a very rich gas situation. If I were you, I'd try starting it with the fuel petcock shut off and see what happens. If it runs good until the bowl runs out of gas, then something might be wrong with the carb, such as a stuck float needle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 2:33pm
There is no additive that ensures there is no water in the fuel. Additives like HEET trap the water and allow it to run through the fuel system to the engine. If there is significant water to start with, you'll need to drain it. I would still put new points and condenser it it. If it's just puttering while cranking, you can try advancing the timing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Brian Jasper co. Ia Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:

There is no additive that ensures there is no water in the fuel. Additives like HEET trap the water and allow it to run through the fuel system to the engine. If there is significant water to start with, you'll need to drain it. I would still put new points and condenser it it. If it's just puttering while cranking, you can try advancing the timing.

Exactly right. I added about 3 or 4 bottles of Heet to a gas tank once that had water. Wasted the Heet. Still had to drain the tank. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobHnwO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 2:48pm
Sounds like it's flooded,shut off gas,take out plugs,run starter couple rounds,clean plugs with ether,install plugs and start.
Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Burns-Tractor-Sales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 3:17pm
I shut off the gas tried to start it and nothing.
I removed the plugs, turned over engine several times, cleaned plugs and still nothing.
I gave it some ether and then I gave it some propane and nether helped?
I'll keep thinking,
Thanks for the info
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by Lonn Lonn wrote:

Originally posted by Gordy Gordy wrote:

If this tractor fires when the starter is cranking and if it has a 12 volt battery it could be a bad resistor that cuts the ignition voltage to 6 volt when running 

IH used that system but A WD doesn't unless the mag is converted to external coil and battery ignition and has the key switch and wiring that bypasses the resistor when starting. I don't know of any Allis that used that system. Just so you know.


poster said it is a 45 so should have distributor not mag, easily changed to solenoid push button start and pick up for 12 volt ignition start 6 volt run   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote junkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 3:54pm
What kind of plugs are you running? Also might try running a jumper wire directly from the battery to the mag just to make sure you are not loosing current when you let off switch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 3:58pm
Do you have a crank to crank start it? If so pull the plugs  and hand crank it and see if it still has spark w/o using the starter. I also thought being a 45 it would have a dist. Look at the points and condensor. If it starts using starter then dies when you let off it's related to this somehow. My 45 takes on condensation worse than any other tractor I've ever seen. Look at the sediment bowel for signs of water and smell the gas in it. open the drain on the bottom of the carb and see what it smells like. put your finger under while it's running and you can feel the difference between gas and water/gas. Let it run until it's good gas or drain the gas in a jug so you can save it and try new gas and if you do this open the drain on the carb and let it run a minute with the new gas.
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Plugs type and number , AC  44, 45, 46, 47, 48 work well.  Autolite are ok Not sure of the number.  Chanpion are a pain. 
 
Now spary the plugs with gumout and clean, spary again let dry. Now spary with ether on the plugs and replace wet with ether. Try to start.  She should fire, if it does and doesn't start repeat.  Now if you are takeing out the plugs, wet from gas. Turn off gas and repeat, also no choke if plugs are wet. 
 
Drain bottom of carb , see if it has water in it. 
 
Bad Gasoline?
 
Timing?  I don't think so.
 
Coil (mag) only making good spark when jumping???  Try to make it junp some, place the plug wires on just a little back from being the hole way on the plug.
 
Try pull starting  ???  
 
Hope you find what going on !!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dadsdozerhd5b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 6:44pm
if it has been changed to distributor with coil, it sounds to me as if it is losing voltage to the coil once the starter is let off. try a jumper wire directly to the coil to be sure it is getting voltage. sounds like ignition to me. did the rotor crack and let it get out of time? are the plug wires on the correct cylinder? make sure you are tracing the rotation of the dist in the proper direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Burns-Tractor-Sales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 7:29pm
I have replaced the points and condenser,
When I am cranking over the engine with the starter the plug wire throws a spark 1" long. This tractor is a 45, it had a mag when I got it, I then switched it over to the external coil right after I got it.
I haven't had any troubles with it until now?
I looked through the mag and I didn't see anything that looked broke or out of place.
I am going to go talk to the local tractor mechanic here in town and see what he has to say.
Thanks for everyone's help
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Make sure your fuel cap is vented, sounds like vapor lock !!! Vent hole blocked ???

Edited by Auntwayne - 01 Jun 2011 at 8:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 9:00pm
From your description of what it does, dadsdozer hit the nail on the head. Run a wire from the battery to the coil, bypassing the whole wiring system. Try starting it. I t could be anything from the ignition switch to any of the wire before or after the switch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dadsdozerhd5b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 4:40am
do not let the fact that it has spark when you crank it fool you. if it fires when you crank it and then it dies when you let off the key it is loosing spark. try leaving one plug out but still hooked up to the wire and turn it over and see if it loses spark when you let off the key. if it starts then you let off the key and the spark goes away, it is a power feed issue. if your tractor has an external coil, it does not have a mag, it has a distributor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobHnwO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 5:59am
Check for defective ignition switch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 6:49am
I'm coming in on this kinda late, but wet plugs are usually an indication of an Ignition problem, unless its obvious fuel is running out the bottom of the carb flooding the engine. 45's normally were equipped with a Distributor. To me, you need to emphasize whether or not it definately has a Mag in it, or its normally equipped Distributor and go from there. An external coil can be used in either application, but the symptoms of a no spark problem will differ between the two applications if the problem is in that area. I've repaired many a Mag that had an external coil used with it. Send a picture if you can. A picture is worth a thousand words...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B26240 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 7:11am
I dont like the smeel of the converted mag thing, check timing something may have "slipped" inside old mag when you shut it of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 12:04pm
Be sure the cylinders don't have an excessive amount of gasoline in them although if you cranked the engine with the spark plugs out if that were the case at least some of the gas should have come out.  This condition can happen if the float valve doesn't stop the gas flow since this is a gravity flow system.  I'd put a tube in the cylinders and try sucking out any gas that might be in there.  We worked on an engine quite a while one time on a D15 before finding out what happened.  
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Here are some pictures of the mag converted to a distributor.
[TUBE]http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb81/Tobemeghan/Pictures039.jpg[/TUBE]
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