| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
DougG 
Orange Level
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Mo
Points: 7946
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Another DOT question- utillity trailer tires
Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 4:02pm |
|
Got a 16 ft utillity trailer gave to me - and needs upgraded, has 15 inch car tires, which are junk- on the wheels now - its 5 hole bolt pattern - all the talk of DOT cracking down , is simple radial car tires enough?
Edited by DougG - 20 Mar 2021 at 4:02pm
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Ray54
Orange Level Access
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
Points: 4346
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 4:45pm |
The rating on the tire needs to be for more weight or as much weight as the gross weight rating of trailer. I have not heard of any other requirements  but I might learn about some before this topic fades away.
I think in "good old days" if the tires where good for more weight than you had on the trailer when weighted and inspected they would of let you go even if trailer was rate for more. They no doubt look for a speed rating as well and not let you us employment tire ether.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 77740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 4:57pm |
with 5 bolt wheels i assume you will have a tag for 8000# ? Thats about 2000# trailer and a 6000# load...... With 4 tires thats 2000# each.
I dont know specific rules in Missouri, but most states do not require " trailer tires"...A good P rated car tire would probably be 2400# load each ..... On a 10,000# or above trailer, you normally put TRAILER TIRES... Quite a few smaller trailers are sold new with car type tires.
I would check on the price of trailer tires, like a 205 or 215 width x 15 diameter.. Probably get a better price on them anyway.
Edited by steve(ill) - 20 Mar 2021 at 4:59pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 77740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 5:06pm |
you might consider new rims.. tires already mounted would save that cost.. check you 5 bolt pattern CIRCLE diameter....
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 29500
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 5:22pm |
|
If used Commercially including in MO, YES there is a Code on the sidewall 'ST', the DOT Boys and Gals know to park you if find 'P' Passenger Car tires.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 77740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 6:21pm |
|
Years ago there were several manufactures of utility/ car trailers in Central / South Illinois. Competition was tough.. The guys use to go to the local auto salvage yard and get a set of "used" tires and rims off a car for $200. and put on the 7000 - 8000 # trailers. When they wore out, most guys upgraded to the ST trailer tires... As far as i know, all the 10K and above trailers were sold NEW with proper trailer tires.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
DougG
Orange Level
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Mo
Points: 7946
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 6:49pm |
|
Thanks Dave for that onfo- it will not be used comerically , but dang the DOT and Hwy Patrol around Linn and out on the new 50 road sure hang around there and like to pull anything over
|
|
HD6GTOM
Orange Level
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Location: MADISON CO IA
Points: 6627
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 6:59pm |
|
I just ordered a new 700x15 bias trailer tire and white spoked trailer rim today. $126.00. 8 ply Multi Mile trailer tire. We can't find the dang spare for the car trailer and the kid and wife have to go to Springfield Ill. And pick up a small rough terrain forklift for the bee business. 6 hrs 1 way. I probably should a ordered 4 new tires.
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 21466
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 7:00pm |
laws vary where you live... I called the local MOT supervisor years ago,here in Ontario( the guv in charge of it..)... asked do I have to have 'trailer tires on my homebuilt trailer' .He immediately said, hope not , I don't . !!! I downloaded the HTA for Ontario and there is NO requirement, ONLY that RUBBER has to meet the road( no studs, no chains). 'Suppose' to get yearly safties on some trailers, another very vague law, asked for 'what a safty' involves..still no answer, even though some garages do them... makes me wonder about the guv we have....sigh. supposedly you can't mix bias with radials, again...impossible to find that out.... local trailer shop says bias is better(stiffer sidewall) but.....my pickup came with radials,
more head scratching..... so a definite maybe..... one day(3 years from now, after covid...) i hope to find an MOT car,ask him direct, what's the poop on tires and safeties, show me the REGULATIONS and LAWS....
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
shameless dude
Orange Level
Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 13611
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 1:18am |
|
Ray....in the good old days...if the tire held air...you was good to go! lol
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4388
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 7:18am |
The biggest advantage of ST (trailer) is the sidewall construction. The sidewalls are more resistant to damage when "scuffing" (turning sharply).
When I was buying new tires for my (16,800 pounds) fifth wheel last year, the salesman, who was very knowledgeable about tires, advised me against LT (truck) tires for that reason.
There isn't really much difference in price. Why not buy tires that were designed for the vehicle you are putting them on ?
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 29500
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 7:23am |
No longer around here shameless.
ST tires have a different sidewall design for the belting, designed to take Side Loading that trailers can expect as opposed to Car tires that can experience side loads on the steer but generally not to same loaded level as a trailer. ST also do not tolerate Torque Loading(the Pull on the face by a power source) as a automotive driven tire will but dissipate heat better than a auto rated tire under full load.
Used car tires for years on trailers, lost quite a few to tread separation, to sidewall fatigue and to general damage untypical to car use. Knock on my wooden head have been using ST tires on my trailers for a number of years getting longer tread life and much fewer failures.
Local Trailer sales yards were fined several years ago in MO for use of Used Car tires with some spectacular failures so that is no longer a option.
Edited by DMiller - 21 Mar 2021 at 7:24am
|
|
TomC
Orange Level Access
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Location: Hillsboro, MO
Points: 1544
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 8:07am |
|
Yup,get rid of the maypop used P tires,, nothing beats hearing a kaboom and seeing your trailer fender go 50 foot in the air and what's left of that tire beating the side of your tractor.
|
|
Scott B
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Location: Kansas City
Points: 1002
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 9:30am |
|
Doug, I’ve been running car tires in my tandem axle utility for years. I don’t haul anything over ~3,500 pounds. It does great.
A little rim/tire shopping secret. Once you know your rim bolt pattern, Google what cars/trucks used that setup, go to pick and pull and look for the Spare tire. I’ve found like new tires/rims still in place underneath truck beds.
All that said, I also wouldn’t mind putting on trailer tires.
Not fun having tire issues when under a load.
|
|
D17 Series 1
Allis B- 1939
Allis B- 1945
|
|
DougG
Orange Level
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Mo
Points: 7946
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 1:10pm |
|
I hear ya Scott, and Ive done that for years - the cops - Hwy Patrol and DOT work together and are So thick here- Im going with the 15 inch ST tires for this trailer , thanks for all replies and info
|
|
Dave H
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Central IL
Points: 3477
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 8:20pm |
|
Bunches of folks run LT tires on campers, me being one of them. I will put my LR E firestone transforce up against any no name st tire made in china.
|
|
Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41201
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 10:12pm |
Trailer Towing – ST Tires vs. LT Tires | RV 101 your education ...Nov 8, 2012 — ST tire designation: ST stands for Special Trailer tire. ST tires are designed for use on trailer axle positions only. ... Because of the heavier construction for an equal volume of air space, an ST tire is designated to carry more load than a P or LT tire.” LT tire designation: LT stands for Light Truck tire.
|
|
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
|
|
GARY(OH/IN)
Orange Level
Joined: 19 May 2010
Location: Findlay,Ohio
Points: 917
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 10:59pm |
|
Great info guys!
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 29500
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 4:09am |
|
I do not buy the 'No Name' Chinese junk, I have Coopers on one trailer and Bridgestones the other, all ST. Tire Dealers will explain do NOT have to honor warranties if used on other than Recommended applications.
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 21466
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 6:10am |
I've always found it 'interesting' that some say 'gotta use ST tires on trailers'. say you're hauling 1000# of gravel,well within the load specs of the tires... I can haul the same 1000# of gravel in my pickup with P rated tires....and THAT's OK ??
curious am i ..
I don't see how an ST tires can't be used as a 'sterring ' tire. I KNOW I make real tight turns backing up my trailer, far tighter that the truck can ever do,so just how can an ST tire fail up front ?
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4388
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 6:48am |
All tires have a rating based on their design and construction. Engineers build them for a specific intended purpose.
Personally, I will buy my tires based on the recommendations and standards that the tire was intended for. I don't want to put my family, or yours, in danger using a tire for something it wasn't built for.
When I see some of these "experts' saying I use this kind of tire with no problems, my question would be why do you think they make tires with special designations ? |
|
Kenny L.
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: NEIOWA
Points: 1224
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 8:03am |
 WF owner wrote:
All tires have a rating based on their design and construction. Engineers build them for a specific intended purpose.
Personally, I will buy my tires based on the recommendations and standards that the tire was intended for. I don't want to put my family, or yours, in danger using a tire for something it wasn't built for.
When I see some of these "experts' saying I use this kind of tire with no problems, my question would be why do you think they make tires with special designations ? |
X2
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 21466
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 8:10am |
why do you think they make tires with special designations ?
to make money, same reason as most everything..... appliances don't last 30 years, like they used to car bodies rot out REAL FAST,unlike 40 years ago computers are 'old' before they get to market....
yes, while 'one size doesn't fit all', it is interesting that a P rated tire is 100% legit to haul loads but some 'experts' say ONLY ST tires for trailers.... so.... if you build a trailer out of a pickup box (used to be common'
what tires do you use 
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4388
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 8:58am |
jaybmiller wrote:
why do you think they make tires with special designations ?
to make money, same reason as most everything..... appliances don't last 30 years, like they used to car bodies rot out REAL FAST,unlike 40 years ago computers are 'old' before they get to market....
yes, while 'one size doesn't fit all', it is interesting that a P rated tire is 100% legit to haul loads but some 'experts' say ONLY ST tires for trailers.... so.... if you build a trailer out of a pickup box (used to be common'
what tires do you use |
So I guess what engineers do is only to make money? So, with your logic we could put implement tires on anything and drive it safely at any speed. It's people that think like this that that have accidents and hurt or kill innocent people.
The reputable tire companies have a lot of liability. That's why they design and manufacture tires with specific ratings for their intended purpose. Unfortunately, there will still be people that think that as long as the tire fits on a rim, it can be used for any purpose.
By the way, I have ST tires on all trailers, LT tires on my truck and P tires on my wife's car.
|
|
Ray54
Orange Level Access
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
Points: 4346
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 10:24am |
I feel the problem is making something that is just barely good enough to last to get you out the door of the store.
I have a 2 ton truck (1975 model) I bought 15 to 20 years ago. Four of the tire on it now where there when I got. Just shows I don't drive it much. Thankfully they are old tires made before the rot away in 7 or 8 years.
Not being a engineer I have no idea what all would be different in a Lt and St tire, but sure hope if it has load rating to carry the load it is not boom waiting to go off if misused. I can see the side wall thing and the St lasting better on a trailer. But there are many trailers running Lt's out there. I bought one that way, have not used it as I thought so I have only changed one tire on it.
|
|
Tbone95
Orange Level Access
Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 11388
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 10:38am |
jaybmiller wrote:
why do you think they make tires with special designations ?
to make money, same reason as most everything..... appliances don't last 30 years, like they used to car bodies rot out REAL FAST,unlike 40 years ago computers are 'old' before they get to market....
yes, while 'one size doesn't fit all', it is interesting that a P rated tire is 100% legit to haul loads but some 'experts' say ONLY ST tires for trailers.... so.... if you build a trailer out of a pickup box (used to be common'
what tires do you use |
car bodies rot out REAL FAST,unlike 40 years ago
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAH!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously???? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....Your typical curmudgeonly spouting is usually funny, but this one take the cake. BWAAAAAhahahahahahahahaha
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 21466
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 10:57am |
re: So, with your logic we could put implement tires on anything and drive it safely at any speed
no NOT my 'logic'. Never bought an 'implement' tire,but 'logically' they have some kind of 'speed' rating,so as long as you go slower than that you should be fine.
Make me wonder, and you farmers will KNOW, are there 'on road' and 'off road' rated implement tires ? Would sure hate to be behind a wagon train of haybales on the road IF the implement tires had NHS molded into them.
There was a discussion years ago here of someone using AIRCRAFT tires on their wagon or grain hopper. If I recall, they were cheaper and had better specs than 'implement' tires.
My comment was that since 'P' rated tires are 100% OK for a pickup hauling 1000# of stone, then they SHOULD be 100% OK for a trailer hauling 1000# load of gravel. If, IF ,they're NOT safe then someone better strike a law PDQ, cause there's a LOT of pickups with 'P' tires on them...straight from the factory.....
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4388
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 2:09pm |
jaybmiller wrote:
...My comment was that since 'P' rated tires are 100% OK for a pickup hauling 1000# of stone, then they SHOULD be 100% OK for a trailer hauling 1000# load of gravel. If, IF ,they're NOT safe then someone better strike a law PDQ, cause there's a LOT of pickups with 'P' tires on them...straight from the factory..... |
I don't know which "pickups with 'P' tires on them...straight from the factory....." you are talking about, but I know it's not Ford or Chevy.
I have a new Ford truck on order and I was wasting some time at the dealer (waiting to talk to the service manager) when I first saw your post. I walked out and took a look at all the F-150's and every one of them had LT tires.
When the service manager got there, I asked him about it and he said he had never heard of a new truck coming in with P tires. He worked at the Chevy garage before coming to Ford and said the Chevy's were all LT tires, too. His logic was that the truck had weight carrying and trailer weight ratings and that P tires wouldn't be adequate and would leave the manufacturer open to lawsuits.
I didn't check Ram, Toyota or Nissan, but I assume they are the same.
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 21466
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 3:23pm |
well my 1997 F150 came with them... that's actually the last new truck I've bought...
but cars come with 'P' tires ,can pull trailers so my comment's still valid
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 77740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 3:56pm |
Not all pickups have LT tires... Maybe 3/4 ton "MOST" have them... But in 1/2 ton, 75% of the trucks sold have P rated tires on time... There are a LOT of new trucks sold with 18 and 20 inch tires 60 / 50 series and they all are P rated tires.. many rated at 2500 pounds per tire or 10K total for a 1/2 ton truck... WAY more than needed.
If your tire pressure is 35- 50 psi, you probably have P rated tires.. If your tire pressure is 60- 75 psi, then you probably have LT tires.
These are your options on a F150...... an F250 would probably have all LT size tires.
Edited by steve(ill) - 22 Mar 2021 at 4:13pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
