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Another 301 Pump Question
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Points: 8455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Another 301 Pump Question
    Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 9:55pm
Didn't want to hijack the other injection pump thread...after reading it, I have some questions of my own...
I've never worked on a diesel before, and quite frankly don't know much about them, so go easy on me. I'm pretty mechanical, though, and am sure I will learn quick. The patient is a 1975 2800 (301 NA) and the Roosa Master pump has an occasional fuel drip when running. I just noticed it recently, and haven't had time to investigate much. It will be a few days before I'm at the farm, and was hoping I could get some advice in the meantime so I have an idea of what I'm doing.
Could this be a matter of simply tightening some bolts and the leak stops? I am familiar with how a gas engine works, but as I said diesels are alien to me. I hate to go turning bolts without knowing how everything works first.
Also, if I remove the pump to get it rebuilt in the future, what are the umbrella seals I've heard mention of? Sounds like you have to be careful putting the pump back on to avoid damage to said seal. 
Thanks!
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DougG View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Points: 8351 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 4:11am
Itd be best to really find where the drip is actually coming from could be simple
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MACK View Drop Down
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Shut off shaft seals are the most likely the place that leaks first. They can be replaced without removing pump. Might want someone with experience to do it. MACK
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injpumpEd View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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Points: 5096 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 7:41am
very common place DB pumps leak is the banjo connectors for the injection lines. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Originally posted by injpumpEd injpumpEd wrote:

very common place DB pumps leak is the banjo connectors for the injection lines. 

yes! I had this issue. New washers fixed it.
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Thanks for the replies, guys. The reason I'm asking a few questions now instead of after I look into the leak is because when I go stay out at the farm, there's no internet there, hence no forum to ask questions on, unless I use my smartphone which is kind of a pain. Asking a few questions in advance as to possible problems/solutions really helps out for diagnosis/repair, and I greatly appreciate everyone's advice. 

Ed, I was thinking it could be coming from one or more of those line connectors, as that area is the cleanest, due to washed off fuel. 
Can I easily remove/reconnect those lines, if they are the culprit, and replace those washers? Or could it be as simple as just snugging them up a bit? I didn't know if they were some kind of compression fitting that was a "1-time use" deal or whether they just thread into the pump. (Again, I've never worked on a diesel, but I'm ready to learn!)
I've been pouring over the injector pump pages in the parts book, but it doesn't go into detail how the lines attach to the pump. 
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injpumpEd View Drop Down
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usually the washers need replaced once they start leaking. Other than tough getting at back ones, they are very simple and straight forward to replace. Make absolutely sure there is a washer on each side of the banjo connector before tightening the bolt really tight. The bolt is long enough, that if you drop a washer, the bolt can bottom in the hole and cause the head of pump to seize as soon as you crank it. Most local dealers, or pump shops have them. Sometimes the head of the pump will have a chip out of it, then the IH washer can help seal it. It is a steel washer with a teflon inner washer. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Thanks, Ed. So, I know IH and Allis both used Roosa Master pumps, and by your last 2 sentences, it sounds like the AC and IH washers are different. Is having the teflon inner washer the only difference? I'm guessing the AC washers are just steel? Sounds like the teflon inner washer would be an advantage in stopping leaks. 
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injpumpEd View Drop Down
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the roosa washers are steel. For some reason, IH came out with a larger diameter steel washer with a teflon inner washer, but in order to use those, the bolts must be the correct special ones if used under the head of the bolt. Many times I provide my customers with 6 IH washers for the pump side, and 6 plain steel washers for the bolt head side. You can also use copper washers which are more forgiving and crush better, but often times start leaking later. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Thanks for the explanation! I'll get the model number from the pump, and see if I can find those IH washers, if that's indeed where it's leaking. 
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670207C1 IH washer, best to get from a pump shop as D670207C1, Stanadyne steel washer number is 16225. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 8619 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 10:21pm
...seems like my 220 manual said the banjo bolts torque to 35 . Seems excessive when doing it.I always just used an end wrench before.Beside the fact you get a T/W on all of them.
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Points: 5020 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 6:51pm
You will have some brand new words in your vocabulary after the first couple times you change those washers on the inside lines...
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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I was thinking about that today...didn't remember there being very much clearance back there. I should be back by the machine in a few days, so I guess I'll figure something out then. 
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Yea...them lines close to the engine are difficult,, but not impossible,,I have not seen a torque wrench that will fit on the lines on the back side. Before ya take anything apart, clean really good, an air compressor blower works good. Get one of them kinda long ones,, helps keep the dirt off you,,I have one I put a 1/4 tube on, bend it to reach in the rough places...

And like Mack said,could also be shaft seals also
I down loaded a complete roosa manual from an online search..Google found it for me...
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Don't be afraid to heat/bend a good box end wrench to fit the back side. Then you'll have a "special tool" to forget where you put it.
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Joined: 12 May 2013
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Points: 5020 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 6:40am
As Ed said (above), make 100% sure you have a washer on both the inside and outside of every every line. It's very easy to drop them!
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Points: 8455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 10:04am
Thanks for the tips, guys. All things I'll keep in mind, if the lines are what's leaking. 
Good idea on downloading the manual, Michael. I'll look into it. 
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Originally posted by MACK MACK wrote:

Shut off shaft seals are the most likely the place that leaks first. They can be replaced without removing pump. Might want someone with experience to do it. MACK
Forgot to add this update a while back, but I think you're right. The leak does seem to be coming from the shaft, and not the banjo connectors. At least if the connectors leak in the future I'll know what to do! (Thanks again, Ed!) 
So, Mack, what's hard about changing those shaft seals? 
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MACK View Drop Down
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To get the shafts out, have to remove top and remove C ring. If not careful the C ring can fall into governor. To get inside shaft out, you may have to remove Allen screw and linkage from end of shaft. Not much room to work.     MACK
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