![]() |
This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity. | |||||
The Forum | Parts and Services | Unofficial Allis Store | Tractor Shows | Serial Numbers | History |
Another 190XT no start |
Post Reply ![]() |
Author | |
plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3754 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 26 May 2024 at 6:56am |
This time not necessarily a request for advice but rather what I've been dealing. Feel free to pitch in though.
This tractor is new to me and always started great till just a week ago then yesterday no start no smoke. There is no primer on this tractor so I disconnected the fuel at the injector pump and had almost no flow. Went to the inlet side of the fuel filter, again almost no flow. Back to the sediment bowls ![]() Screens are clogged. This stuff is gooey and sticky like uncredited gasket sealer. Presumably bio diesel crud. Anyway, got it all cleaned up. ![]() Decided to drain the tank completely as the fuel left in there is cloudy ![]() I poured some gas in the tank to act as a solvent to cut the crud as that appears similar to molasses. I clanped a brush on a stick to scrub some. Obviously I can't get all of it due to the baffle but some is better than none. I now have 10 gallons fresh diesel, clean sediment bowls and new filter. Have good flow out the sediment bowls but not so much from line itself. I did get the tractor to start and run briefly but I think there is still a restriction in the supply line. Ran out of time yesterday and this is an outdoor project with rain today's so will have to wait some. Thanks for looking |
|
![]() |
|
Sponsored Links | |
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I haven't used any screens for 40 or more years. It's always the first place that gives problems in the winter time. The fuel filter catches all the dirt. Throw the screens away to eliminate a problem at that point.
|
|
![]() |
|
DSeries4 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7433 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Take the tank to a shop to get completely cleaned out and your problem will be eliminated. |
|
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
|
|
![]() |
|
captaindana ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fort Plain, NY Points: 2527 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
My xt sat for 28 years when I got her. Ended up power washing inside tank. Threw away bowl screens. Not an issue since.
|
|
Blue Skies and Tail Winds
Dana |
|
![]() |
|
im4racin ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Jun 2017 Location: Garrison ND Points: 1003 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Clean up fuel system as best as you can and treat fresh fuel with bio kleen. Sounds like algae
|
|
![]() |
|
plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3754 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I'll get the screens out. Gonna replace the gaskets as one is leaking now.
|
|
![]() |
|
calico190xt68 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 2017 Location: Frankton, IN Points: 829 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I dealt with a bad fuel line, gunk in tank, bad sediment bowls all at the same time so I feel your pain. I have often wondered if the tank cleaners can really get the gunk out with the baffle? I drained my tank multiple times. My needle valves in the sediment bowls got restricted multiple times until I got it all out. I also do want to relate a story about removing the screens. I left the cap off of my fuel tank, mowed 2 acres of weedy, fluffy seeds floating around. A bunch of seeds got into my tank, and clogged up the check valve in the primer pump. It was self inflicted. The primer pump is in front of the fuel filter. Otherwise, I think screen removal is fine.
|
|
80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
![]() |
|
AC720Man ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 5126 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
To each his own but I leave my screens in as they were designed to help keep dirt out. Cleaned them 8 years ago when I got the XT and haven’t had to touch them since. I never run Bio Diesel, I am not a fan of it. Thankfully there are plenty of stores that sell off road diesel for my tractors. Cleaned your fuel containers and wiping the fuel cap and neck with a clean rag before refueling will keep dirt out of your tank. Realizing this is new to you the only good way of resolving your issue is a really good cleaning of the tank.
|
|
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
|
|
![]() |
|
tbran ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3471 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I would unscrew the sediment bowls from the tank and insert about a 2" long roll pin in the middle of the bowls to stick up in the tank - this will prevent a 'sink stopper' effect if a rust flake occurs. The slot in the roll pin will allow the tank to drain . A stand pipe will never let the tank drain and the results are not pretty. With today's fuel and algae, I would vote no on the screens. The main reason is they are so hard to get to at 70 years of age... the fuel filter is not.
|
|
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
|
|
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
There is nothing more unpleasant that cleaning screens in the wintertime cold while the fuel is dripping off your elbow !!! Throw them away !!!
|
|
![]() |
|
plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3754 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Screens are out. At present, I am not able to get fuel through the injector pump to the injectors. Have loosened 3 lines at the injectors. Nothing so far but now also fighting an intermittent starter solenoid and maintaining battery charge. To think, all I wanted to do was try to isolate a buzzing hydraulic line from the pump tooil cooler
|
|
![]() |
|
Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2198 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I typically run a 90/10 mixture of diesel/acetone through a system that is sticky or gummed up from this crap biodiesel we have. Have a spare set of filters with you as the sludge and grime will release with the filters catching it. If really bad, filters will plug, but the fresh fuel and acetone act very well together and don't seem to hurt anything; or at least hasn't for me in many years with diesel engines of several types. You could also use naptha, but the desired results take longer to achieve. Many times transfer pumps and their check valves are the first things to stick precluding fuel flow and this mixture will get them freed back up and working. Same thing with injectors.
|
|
That's All Folks!
|
|
![]() |
|
plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3754 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
An update
Apparently this tractor has had a combine engine swap according to someone looking it over at the consignment auction where I got this. There are electrical gremlins under the dash of this thing. The start button is good, the safety switch is good, power to the starting system is sketchy. I can bypass all that and jump across the starter solenoid and starter works as should. All safety should be observed when using this method It does not have a fuel primer pump so I put an electric pump in to compensate. I also removed the fill cap and fuel level sender and stuck a swab on a stick to scrub the inside of the tank as best I could with gasoline. Replaced the cap and sender, sediment bowls minus the screens and a new fuel filter. The electric pump is downstream of the spin on fuel filter so it will draw clean fuel. Still unable to push fuel through the injection pump. This was last year yet. At Hutch last year I picked up a primer pump from one of the vendors and hard piped it to the filter base outlet. Shortened the line to the Roosa DM. Removed the end cap from the Roosa and cleaned that inlet screen. Loosened two lines on the pump outlet and four lines at the injectors. With my accountant operating the starter I worked the hand primer and got fuel to move through all the loosened injector lines. Tightened up all the lines and got her to run finally. At first it tried to run away so shut off the fuel immediately. It restarted and settled down to a normal idle. I drove it around a while to get the engine warm. The throttle response is a little sluggish. That was two days ago. Gonna check on her again tonight to see how it goes. Thought you’d like to know |
|
![]() |
|
SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8470 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
With the crap you had in the bowls you had it in the pump too. I'm surprised the pump functions at all. BIO DIESEL IS BAAAAAD!! for farm use.. Too much setting.
|
|
![]() |
|
plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3754 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Tried it again tonight
No fire, no smoke, no joy I did find the fuel supply line to the injector pump was loose. May not be out of the woods yet |
|
![]() |
|
JC-WI ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 34181 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
"I did find the fuel supply line to the injector pump was loose" Check to see if you still have fuel in the tank. |
|
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
|
![]() |
|
injpumpEd ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 5060 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Very common for the Roosa DB pumps to have the plungers stick when they sit in this crappy modern fuel we have. Tractors that sit must have as low a bio content as possible, most fuel suppliers offer a premium diesel, and it is worth the higher price!
|
|
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
|
|
![]() |
|
DPKII ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Mar 2023 Location: Texas Points: 67 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I just went through this with my 190 too. Had the pump rebuilt by Ed and installed last year and the injectors rebuilt and installed this spring. Tractor started and ran great! Best its run in years.
I had drained and cleaned the tank as best I could last fall before installing the rebuilt pump. The tractor set from sometimes in November till early March. This spring with a hour or so of running after installing the injectors it started running poorly. Checked the bowls and found sludge in the bottom of both. The tank had a 1/8" to 1/4" of sludge across the bottom. Super sticky, like thick tar. Ended up pumping the tank dry (biodiesel) by jacking up one rear or the other as I didn't want to get a diesel shower pulling the bowls with fuel in the tank. To clean I replaced both bowls with a hose barb and ran a hose from each down below the drawbar to a catch pan and blocked the hoses with some 3/8" round stock. I made a couple "mops) using 5/8" dowels with a groove at one end and zip tied a thick sock to each. I used acetone a couple gallons at a time to soak the sludge and used the mops through the filler and fuel sender holes to clean inside the tank. Went through about a dozen socks. I could actually get the mops pretty well up the sides of the tank and baffle to scrub and agitate the acetone and also jacking each side of the tractor to flush through the hose barbs and hoses so each side was clean. Did this a few times and flushed acetone backwards through the fuel lines with a pressure tank. Finally flushed everything with clean diesel to get rid of any remaining acetone. Had to clean the metering valve in the pump as it was gummed up with the sticky sludge as well. This time, talked to a local hay farmer and bought premium farm diesel from him. He said he hasn't had any sludge problems and he has a few old tractors that sit most of the year. Hopefully I have cured my tank problem. I also had been using stanadyne additive and will continue to do so. This time I also am using some bioclean additive for the first tank or two.. David |
|
![]() |
|
SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8470 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
There should be a disclaimer with every sale of biodeisel. "Warning-do NOT let vehicle/equipment set for extended periods when using this product." It's like recap tires. Cheaper initial cost but risk of damage outweighs savings. Left 1/2 tank in F2 one winter and rusted the crap out of fuel tank. I burn it all the time in my road truck but it doesn't set around. Some farms use it through busy season but switch to straight diesel near end to clean out systems for over winter. (hassel) I don't know if soy oil biodiesel causes trouble but there's alot of bio that isn't soy based. I don't chance it with farm equipment. Straight diesel only. Does it really cost more in the end?
|
|
![]() |
|
sparky ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 2011 Location: So. Indiana Points: 1724 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I believe straight diesel is worth the cost for peace of mind.
|
|
It's the color tractor my grandpa had!
|
|
![]() |
|
plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3754 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
FWIW, the problem began with the fuel that was in the tractor when I bought it. I never gave it a thought then cuz it ran well for a couple months with little use. It literally ran when parked then this after a week of sitting. All of the existing fuel has been drained, cleaned, flushed and the fuel filter replaced. I believe what I am dealing with now is a sticky residue left in the pump.
I do not use bio diesel from any convenience store outlet. Rather I have fuel delivered from the local ag supplier and believe there is no bio in it. |
|
![]() |
|
DanielW ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 19 Sep 2022 Location: Ontario Points: 184 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
That sludgy, sticky residue is a result of 'Diesel Algae' or 'Diesel Bug': The byproduct of a bacteria that can live in diesel fuel, feast on the hydrocarbons, and leaves a sticky residue in its wake. If it's left unchecked, it can cause a real nightmare, plugging the whole fuel system up with that sticky residue and wreaking havoc with injection pumps.
It used to only be a problem in marine diesels, where the humid environments would promote its growth. Now, however, it's increasingly problematic in other diesels. It's not strictly a 'fault' with modern diesel fuels, but its increasing presence is a result of modern diesel: The sulphur content of older diesel fuel hampered the bacteria's growth. Now that all diesel is low-sulphur, it's a lot more common. To kill the bacteria and prevent it coming back, you need a diesel biocide to treat the fuel. Other additives won't do squat to kill it. A decade and more ago, you'd have to go to a marina to find diesel biocide. But now that it's becoming common, lots off other places carry it. The Case and Kubota dealers near me have carried it for a few years now, and my local Napa started stocking it a few months ago. The most common diesel biocide is called 'JF Biobor'. Google 'diesel algae' and you'll see lots of pictures/info on it. Once the sludge is established, methyl hydrate is one of the few products that will help break it down. Methyl hydrate won't kill the bacteria though; you need a good dose of biocide to kill it so it doesn't come back. Any diesel that's going to be sitting for more than a couple of months should have a dose of biocide put in it.
Edited by DanielW - 12 minutes ago at 12:46pm |
|
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
|
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |