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And speaking of 7010 fuel injection pumps
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Roscoe62 View Drop Down
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Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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Points: 145 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roscoe62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: And speaking of 7010 fuel injection pumps
    Posted: 23 May 2017 at 7:51am

Anyone else have a 7010 / 20 with a SIMMS fuel injection pump?

My tractor came from southern Indiana who bought it from someone up near Indy, but did not know any history of this.

Just curious.  I have a little oil leak and may need to look into it.

Thanks, 
Roscoe.
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Combines and industrial only ones I've seen with simms inline.Wonder if yours got a combine transplant.
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Has to be a transplanted engine.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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yup,  scratch the black off and see what color is underneath.. bet it is a bluegreen or orange...    Ed can correct me on this, but the 1972/3 combines had Simms inline pumps. The report is they gave so much trouble they changed out a lot to roosa master.  Ed might have more input here. But... The issue was high rpm flutter under no or light load plus some hp issues.  One source said the problem was not the pump, but rather the supply pump and the lines leading to  the pump. The diaphragm  pump could not supply the pump with enough fuel if there was an obstruction due to trash, or collapsed lines.  It was also prone to air ingestion that resulted in the flutter.    I have a 190 with the simms , it runs very well, starts great and is super fuel efficient at partial loads..  Also the timing of the Simms was the same as the 1800 rpm units - which might have been a tad low for the higher RPMs used on the combines.  
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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I have a 3500 MK II (426) industrial engine with a Minimec (Simms) injection pump in my 220. Yes it sure starts great.
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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They should have used the Simms on all their engines.
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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My 78 545B AC loader with 301/Simms starts and runs good with plenty of power.Soon after my ser # they went to a Roosa 'cording to parts manual.
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Every combine we get that has a Simms usually gets junked for being a miserable starting cold blooded POS that flutters and never runs correctly.

We hate them with a passion.

Amazing how different applications have better luck than others! :)

Just like how the 8000 series tractor guys seem to hate the Ambac pump, my old man cant see how and thinks its great.
Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.

If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help.
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Here are some Photos of what I have.  The engine is all black, no green or yellow paint underneath.  Would the engine serial # help me ID it?
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The engine is all black, no green or yellow paint underneath.  Would the engine serial # help me ID it?
All engines for West Allis were painted with a primer that was called "buff green". It's a pea soup green kind of color.
On the engine ID plate it will give you the engine series number, the catalog number and the engine serial number. Using the catalog number you can break it down to the  group number (subassemblies) "IE" fuel injection group and from there you'll find the individual part numbers for each part from screws, nuts, injectors and the A C part number for the injection pump.
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looks to me like it has an oil line coming from the engine. I don't have anything that shows what that pump number is for. According to one sheet I have, it's not an "L" pump.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Judging from the orange paint on the pump that tells me it's off of a combine engine. All of the engines that were shipped from Harvey to Independence (combine plant) were painted orange and had no primer color under the orange paint. 
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Ed, 
       there is a NOS Simms pump on ebay with that same AC model number.  The ebay description says it is from an "L", but who knows. 

ACJack, I will get the engine plate number, but where do I get the info to "break it down to the  group number"?   The color under the black engine paint appears to be a light rusty red.

Thanks all, 
- Roscoe
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I added that AC number to my list. It shows the 4100 number being for a P5188A, timed to 30*. To help with your flutter, check timing, and may have to slightly advance it until it goes away, if it ever does. Engine flutters can be very difficult to track down since on a stand, I drive the pump, on the engine, it kinda drives the engine so to speak, so delivery valve hydraulic issues can also cause problems. Injectors getting low enough on opening pressure can cause it to worsen. Many people set injectors too low thinking they are doing good, but the nozzle can actually open and cause secondary injection between events. So check and adjust timing. Then check injectors again. Just because they were "redone" doesn't mean they were rebuilt correct for this application.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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ACjack View Drop Down
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To break down the catalog number you'll need to get a "master "? Parts book. Maybe someone here has one.
All major castings had a red oxide paint on them. That could explain the light rusty red color.
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Hey Ed! That gov is poor design and always worn(according to my pump guy).Can that lead to fluttering?
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How hard is it to replace or rebuild the governor? Where can parts be found?
When someone tells you Nothings Impossible, Tell them to slam a revolving door
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I don't want to hijack this post but only add to it. This is the Minimec (Simms) iinjection pump on the engine in my 220. It is yellow under the grey. I bought from an Amish fellow as a bare power unit but was supposed to have run a standby water pump in a town. It had 82 hrs. The manuals that came with the engine are correct for the engine but for on highway application. Injector orifice is listed as .375mm (.0148") which makes them the same as a 7080. Engine is a 3500 MKII and I'm guessing about 1974-5 by the design of the oil cooler. Pump tag is 4029107 and upside down on the same tag is P51841L. Engine is serial 3D-23396 Cat 4035113 with an additional number 1-7451-72818 on the data plate.
The yellow and black is the addition of the large waterpump and intercooler. With the factory pump settings the  tractor dynos 190 hp. (220 XT) I'd love to find out more about this.


Edited by Calvin Schmidt - 08 Jun 2017 at 2:39pm
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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ACjack View Drop Down
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The reason I ask is because in the late 70's we (Harvey) started to sell engines to an OEM of a module tractor and those engines were painted a semi gloss black without a primer coat. Unfortunately I'm unable to remember their name. That would explain the paint job on your engine; "Black paint" and nothing under it except "rusty red color". So you could have had an engine swap with one of those and an injection pump swap from a combine engine.  
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Originally posted by Calvin Schmidt Calvin Schmidt wrote:

I don't want to hijack this post but only add to it. This is the Minimec (Simms) iinjection pump on the engine in my 220. It is yellow under the grey. I bought from an Amish fellow as a bare power unit but was supposed to have run a standby water pump in a town. It had 82 hrs. The manuals that came with the engine are correct for the engine but for on highway application. Injector orifice is listed as .375mm (.0148") which makes them the same as a 7080. Engine is a 3500 MKII and I'm guessing about 1974-5 by the design of the oil cooler. Pump tag is 4029107 and upside down on the same tag is P51841L. Engine is serial 3D-23396 Cat 4035113 with an additional number 1-7451-72818 on the data plate.
The yellow and black is the addition of the large waterpump and intercooler. With the factory pump settings the  tractor dynos 190 hp. (220 XT) I'd love to find out more
about this.
If it's from 74/75 there's a good chance that I was the inspector who gave the final approval to ship it. 
The 1-7451-72818 is most likely the purchase order number that the dealer ordered it through and that was stamped on the "long" data plate which listed all of the options that were ordered on it by the dealer. The standard engine data plate is about 3" long and the commercial engine data plate was about 10" long. 
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Yes the possible PO number was on the long data plate. The small id plate has the model as 3500. The long data plate has it as 3500 MK II.  The manual is dated 8/72 but that is likely the print date for a quantity of manuals. Could that number mean that it was built in the 51st week of 1974 with reference to the manual that was printed on the 18/8/72 ? If you inspected this engine, you did GOOD!  Did all 'ON HIGHWAY' engines have a Simms pump? 

Edited by Calvin Schmidt - 08 Jun 2017 at 5:57pm
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ACjack View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Calvin Schmidt Calvin Schmidt wrote:

Yes the possible PO number was on the long data plate. The small id plate has the model as 3500. The long data plate has it as 3500 MK II.  The manual is dated 8/72 but that is likely the print date for a quantity of manuals. Could that number mean that it was built in the 51st week of 1974 with reference to the manual that was printed on the 18/8/72 ?



Don't remember if 1-7451 meant 51st week of 1974. As to the manual and its revisions I have no clue. 
As the inspector in the commercial products department I would get a copy of the PO and place it in my file until the unit (s) came out of paint. I would then pull the PO and verify that it was built to what the dealer ordered. You wouldn't believe how many options and combinations where possible. Then I would check paint, decals, accuracy of the option plate and reviewed the engine build/test log for completeness of all entries and spec's, and that the loose items (manuals & etc) were with the units. Any defects that were found were written up for repair; after repair I'd reinspect. Also a copy of the PO was attached to the unit prior to being shipped.
The option plate would have the part group numbers on it so that the correct replacement parts could be ordered.
 
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I would like to know about the governor also. I have a 3 cyl Simms pump on Ford 3000.
The governor isn't trying to maintain speed at all. It starts ok, I can change rpm with throttle. But no governing action.
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Originally posted by BrianC BrianC wrote:

I would like to know about the governor also. I have a 3 cyl Simms pump on Ford 3000.
The governor isn't trying to maintain speed at all. It starts ok, I can change rpm with throttle. But no governing action.
Unless they changed things....have you checked or changed the oil on the simms? Ford did not engine oil lube their Simms pumps.You had to "change oil " in the pump.When never done ...the pump ends up junk.
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I know about the oil in the box. Currently running mix of oil, ATF and Liquid Wrench.
I thought if something were gummed up, rusted up, maybe that will un-stick it. So far no luck. Another winter project.
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I have this same engine in my 220.  Exact.  My serial number is one off from this one.  3D-23395.  I figured it wasn't the original engine.  My grandpa was the 2nd owner of this tractor.  I talked with the son of the original dealer that sold this tractor new.  They only sold one 220.  He told me the original owner tore the bull gears out of it.  After they fixed it they dynoed it and it was at 190 HP.  He says they turned it back to maybe 150 HP.  I'm curious to know what the horse power is now for sure.  I certainly don't want to tear it up but a 190 HP 220 would make one smile.
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My additional number on the plate is 7-7403-33924.
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We had a Farmhand Tub Hay grinder that came factory with a 11000 engine in it and a roosa master pump, after we wore out the second rebuild, dad was in a hurry and found another already rebuilt 11000 this one had a simms pump on it, and both started very well no matter how hot or cold.  It probably did help that it was a 24v system with two 1400 CCA Group 8D batteries.  I had left home when he put the second engine in the grinder, so I didn't run it nearly as much as the one with the Roosa, but it sure seemed to run about the same, and pull just as hard.  The fuel tank was right beside the engine, and only had to draw up about three feet, so that may have helped with fuel delivery also.
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HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
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