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CrestonM 
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Location: Oklahoma
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 Topic: Alternator help
Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 4:05pm |
Need some help from anyone who knows more about alternators than me...
I'm putting this on my 8N. It's a Delco-Remy. I see the big terminal is marked BAT for battery, but what are those two prongs for on the right? The top one has a 1 by it and the bottom has a 2 by it.
Thanks!
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Tcmtech
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Location: Minot ND
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 4:12pm |
1 is the excitation input that gets turned on with the ignition and 2 is the voltage sensing lead that ties to the bigger output stud.
Typically I put a diode inline with the #1 excitation line so it can't feedback and keep the ignition on when the key gets turned off.
Also the N series ignition systems produce a lot of nasty line noise that can fry the internal regulators on that type of alternator so I highly recomend putting several ignition noise suppressing capacitors (ignition condensers work really well) in the system.
One between the alternators #1 lead and its case and a second one or two as close to the ignition coils power lead connection stud and the engine block as you can.
For extra protection I would also recomend running the alternator excitation lead directly from the key and not from the ignition coil as well and an extra condenser mounted up near the key doesn't hurt anything either. 
Edited by Tcmtech - 30 Dec 2015 at 4:20pm
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CrestonM
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 4:32pm |
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So...I can't just run 1 wire through the ammeter and to the battery and call it good?
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 4:56pm |
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That's an old 10SI style alternator. #2 wire gets tied to bat+ stud, #1 thru idiot light or diode to ignition switch. Several 'hookup' diagrams available, just google '10SI wiring'.
I prefer the newer ( late 90s) CS130 series. smaller,more amps, and free.....
Heck if it's good though, bodge a bracket,add a 3" pulley and wire it up.
Jay
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CrestonM
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 5:12pm |
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So if I understand a diagram I found, I can jumper the BAT and #2 terminal and forget #1 since it's for an idiot light. Sound ok?
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Tcmtech
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 5:14pm |
 CrestonM wrote:
So...I can't just run 1 wire through the ammeter and to the battery and call it good? |
Only if you put a one wire type regulator in it which is pretty easy to do plus there are newer versions out there now that have low cut in speeds compared to the older ones.
They are around $15 on eBay and pretty straightforward simple to install provided you can read and compare a picture to the actual unit you are working on and get them to match.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 5:15pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 5:19pm |
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for a switch I use a double pole that has two sets of contacts thrown at the same time... one set puts power to the alternator resistor (signal), and the other terminal set opens the ground wire to the magneto so it can fire, or puts voltage to the distributor / coil so the motor can run.......... then I have a starter button.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 5:22pm |
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So would the easiest thing be to trade this for a 1 wire unit at an alternator shop? Checked with one not to far away and it's $30 for a 1 wire.
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 5:43pm |
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The bother with a one wire alternator is that it needs to turn (at least the one I have) about 3000 rpm to start charging. With the wire through the lamp, resistor, or diode from the ignition circuit it starts charging at a few hundred rpm. What speed the engine needs depend on the pulleys on the fan belt.
Gerald J.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 5:52pm |
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I started the tractor (3/4 throttle) and hooked up a digital multimeter to the BAT terminal and a ground and got readings that jumped around from 9V to 15V. What's that mean?
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Tcmtech
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 7:00pm |
Gerald J. wrote:
The bother with a one wire alternator is that it needs to turn (at least the one I have) about 3000 rpm to start charging. With the wire through the lamp, resistor, or diode from the ignition circuit it starts charging at a few hundred rpm. What speed the engine needs depend on the pulleys on the fan belt.
Gerald J.
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Yea on the old Delco 10SI alternators that higher cut in speed was a bit of a nuisance when dealing with low RPM tractors that originally ran low RPM generators with a minimum amount of pulley ratio to work with.
That's where the new generation of low cut in type one wire regulators come in. They solved that problem often putting the as used cut in speeds well under 1000 RPM plus they have incredibly low standby current draw as well.
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Tcmtech
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 7:05pm |
CrestonM wrote:
I started the tractor (3/4 throttle) and hooked up a digital multimeter to the BAT terminal and a ground and got readings that jumped around from 9V to 15V. What's that mean? |
It more than likely means the heavy ignition noise is messing up your meter and you need some filtering to get it under control so that your meter can get a accurate reading otherwise it will likely kill your alternator's regulator once you do get it up and charging properly.
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JoeO(CMO)
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 7:17pm |
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I have a question about excitation.
Can a person hook excitation to the solenoid side of starter switch?
Will the alternator continue to charge until rpm falls off; and regain excitation when started again?
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 8:43pm |
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The alternator regulator needs 12 volts on the exciter pin momentarily when its turing fast enough to charge. Once it starts generating voltage it doesn't need that voltage, in fact it back feeds that pin. The classic 1 wire alternator once its spun fast enough to start generating works all the time the engine is running, even at low speeds.The reason for using a diode, lamp, or resistor in the circuit when supplying the exciter pin from the engine ignition circuit is to prevent back feeding enough power to have ignition even with the ignition switch turned off.
Gerald J.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 9:17pm |
CrestonM wrote:
So would the easiest thing be to trade this for a 1 wire unit at an alternator shop? |
No, the easiest thing to do would be to wire this one up right. NAPA and many others have a plug with short wires that plugs into those 2 prongs. The one hooks to the BAT terminal, the other has to have voltage from the battery to excite the alternator but has to be cut from the circut when you shut the engine off or it won't shut off. That is what the diode, idiot light and a switch will do. You can put a push button switch on the dash that connects the ignition circut "key" to the alternator and just push the button after the tractor is running to excite the alternator, or put in an idiot light or diode to keep it from back feeding the ignition coil when the key is off.
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 9:42pm |
You probably have a working Alternator there. You just need to hook it up correctly to make it work, and Steve supplied a pretty simple diagram to go by for the install. Here's a pic of the rear of the same "SI" series Alternator that you have. Our quick disconnect diode module is plugged into the Alternator. If you have some wire, you can do this yourself. You'll need a diode to stop any backfeed to the Ignition switch. Other than that, you should be good to go. Your #1 terminal is the terminal you need to supply 12V's to from the key switch. The #2 terminal is your voltage "sense" terminal which you can run a jumper wire (red wire in my pic) to the output stud of the Alternator. I highly recommend using a Voltmeter in lieu of the Ammeter for safety. If you want to keep an Ammeter, install a 60/60 sweep Ammeter in place of the OEM 20/20. The last thing you want is a fire between your legs. Make sure you use a good 12V Ignition switch for the application you have. If its Mag fired, pick yourself up an Ignition switch for Magneto. If its Distributor, you'll need a key switch with a IGN terminal. If you're not sure what to get, look at our website. There's pics there you can look at to see what you need. Or, you can get anything you need from us if you want. Your call there... 
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 8:38am |
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While Steve prefers the voltmeter for safety, I prefer the ammeter for information. The voltmeter tells me the battery if connected could be taking a charge, but not whether the battery is connected. And typically it doesn't show me the battery voltage but a voltage in the wiring away from the battery that has some voltage drop to the battery if the battery is really connected. I had lab grade ammeter and voltmeter in my '64 beetle and the voltmeter gave me very little useful information. My '98 F150 has a supposed voltmeter that tells little useful information because it has only two divisions on the scale, 8 and 18 volts. I doesn't vary while cranking or charging. It give less information than the dome light on battery condition.
Yes proper ammeter wiring requires sturdy wire and is a circuit always live when the battery is connected so if something eats the wire insulation it does present a fire hazard. A voltmeter can't be left connected to the battery because it would run the battery down in a month or two.
Gerald J.
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