This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Allis Rake Tedder - Float Springs?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
DanielW View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 19 Sep 2022
Location: Ontario
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanielW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Allis Rake Tedder - Float Springs?
    Posted: 15 Jun 2023 at 12:21pm
Hi folks,

I have a couple of the old Allis rake-tedder combo units: one of the #7's, and two of the slightly older ones that didn't have model numbers. I was wondering if anyone knows if these ever had springs to take some of the basket weight off for floating.

As those who've used these will know, one of the biggest problems with these rakes (apart from gearbox issues) is them not liking rough ground and beating themselves up. The other day I cut out two sections of the basket lift chains (one on each side) on one of my rakes and put two heavy extension springs in their place. Holy smackers - what a difference! Instead of 350 pounds of basket crashing and banging over every bump, I'm guessing the springs probably take about 3/4 of the weight and also cushion it a little, so it floats much nicer over the ground.

The only trouble: I used two heavy extension springs I had laying around. They're not the same as each other (one's a lot stiffer than the other) and they're both a little too stubby. I was going to spec some new ones to buy/try but I'm wondering if Allis did something like this from the factory? If so, maybe I'm better off trying to duplicate what they did rather than cobble together my own wackiness. I have long-term dreams of restoring the #7 to make a good match behind a WD45, so it would be neat to have it as close to original as possible.

All three of my rakes have seen extensive MacGyvering over the years, so it's not too easy to tell what may or may not have been originally on them.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
PaulB View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
Points: 5044
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2023 at 4:03pm
I used one for many years and I agree they DON"T like rough ground.  They were designed and built back when farmers took pride in having SMOOTH fields. 
 Your idea of putting a spring in the lift chains is a great one.  If I still had one I'd go to the McMaster Carr catalog and pick out a matched pair of extension spring to do what you did.  
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
Back to Top
Tbone95 View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 12126
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2023 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by PaulB PaulB wrote:

I used one for many years and I agree they DON"T like rough ground.  They were designed and built back when farmers took pride in having SMOOTH fields. 
 Your idea of putting a spring in the lift chains is a great one.  If I still had one I'd go to the McMaster Carr catalog and pick out a matched pair of extension spring to do what you did.  

Never miss an opportunity to slam how people do things do you? Your world was just so perfect and THEY took it from you and left you behind.

To me what you say about smooth fields is completely wrong. Stuff I see around here including my own are smoother than ever. For just one example grandpa didn’t own a rolling harrow in 1945 when he bought this place. Ever hear of a woodchuck?
Back to Top
DanielW View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 19 Sep 2022
Location: Ontario
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanielW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2023 at 7:31am
O golly, I didn't intend to kindle an argument here. I appreciate the responses, and no offence taken with the comments about rough fields :)

I won't deny some of my fields are exceptionally rough, but I'll try and justify it by saying up here in the rough & rocky Canadian Shield, tillage takes on a whole new dimension. It's hard to maintain smooth fields when you're pulling up boulders the size of smart cars every 100 yards, and when the frost heaves the ground in crazy ways every spring. My grandfather also had the general rule (which still holds approximately true) that every day spent with a tillage implement results in a week's worth of stone picking, so I'll often forgo an extra pass with the discs or cultivator if I think it's smooth enough, and if I want to give my back a break. And a few of my fields are so steep, that every time you till and it rains you're likely to lose some topsoil in runoff.

I remember the first time I tried plowing at a friend's down South in some beautiful flat clay: I couldn't believe how easy & smooth it was. Plowed for a whole morning and only turned up a few grapefruit-sized rocks. I was tempted to sell my farm and move right then.

I'm glad you think the extension springs are a good idea: I ordered a matched set last night. Even so, it's a massive improvement to the rake with the ones I've got in there now. I wish Allis had thought to do this from the factory. For a couple of dollars worth of springs it really transforms the rake, and I'll bet a lot more of these rakes would have survived if they'd been like this since new.

Another thing I did was flip all my teeth around backwards. I only use these rakes for tedding (I have rotary rakes for raking, and would never go back). Flipping the teeth  ensures they're all bending the 'correct' way when tedding, so they don't break off so frequently. Before I did this, I'd loose a few teeth every year. New teeth for these Allis rakes are still available, but I'm not sure for how long.
Back to Top
BillinAlberta View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Saskatchewan
Points: 356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BillinAlberta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2023 at 11:42am
I would love to give this a try.Can you give us the size of the springs?

Back to Top
DanielW View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 19 Sep 2022
Location: Ontario
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanielW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2023 at 12:16pm
The ones I have are about 6" long, 1/4" wire diameter, 2" overall diameter. But they're far from perfect.

The ones I ordered are McMaster Carr Part #3630N424. We'll see how they go. They have an 85# preload and 249# maximum capacity. Their spring rate is about 130# per inch. If my guesstimate of basket weight of 350# is correct, they should stretch a little over 1" when taking the basket weight. That equates to about 2 to 3" of basket float with the geometry of the Allis lift mechanism.

If you're giving it a go, when cutting out a section of the existing chain (or rod), you'd have to cut out a little more than the spring's stock length to account for the stretch it will have lifting the basket.

I'll let you know how the new ones work when I get them on there. Won't be for a couple of weeks unfortunately - I'm off to Georgia for work.
Back to Top
tadams(OH) View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Jeromesville, O
Points: 10780
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2023 at 12:52pm
 I remember the AC rake I grew up around, it had 2 wheels that pivited and you couldn't use high gear on the WC going down the highway because it would dance all over the road.
Back to Top
DanielW View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 19 Sep 2022
Location: Ontario
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanielW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2023 at 1:19pm
Yup -That's the one: Both the #7 and the slightly older 'PTO Rake' had the right wheel pivot (#7 was behind the basket, while the earlier 'PTO Rake' was beside). There was also a factory option for a second pivoting wheel on the right side. In all cases, going in road gear makes the pivoting wheel(s) go completely bonkers. You could solve it by tightening up the friction brake. But if you did that and forgot to slacken it off when you got to the field, you'd wear it out pretty fast.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.121 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum