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ewhitaker0020 
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Joined: 01 Sep 2020
Location: 40380
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 Topic: Allis D14 Starter issues
Posted: 01 Sep 2020 at 9:31am |
How do the starters on the D14 Allis chalmers work? My starter stopped working. When I turned the key the starter was spinning, but there wasn't any engagement on the flywheel gear. So I removed the starter and the front of the gear are worn, like the starter has only been riding on the very front of the flywheel. I replaced the starter a couple of years ago and the tractor mostly sits so I don't start it that often. I can't adjust the starter location because the bolt locks it into place. Why would the starter be riding only on the front of the flywheel teeth?
Well, after this starter broke I ordered another one from ebay. I finally installed it yesterday and it starter the tractor twice and now all I hear is spinning just like on the other starter. Am I missing something? I have a hard time believing the new starter broke just after 2 uses. Also even in the uninstalled position the starter gear seems all the way forward. Even on the new one its like that and the gear freely spins. The gear only moves forward and backward about 1/4-3/8 of an inch. I thought starters moved all the way back and forward via the solenoid? It's almost like this starter gear always stays forward and freely spins on the flywheel?
Any help is greatly appreciated!! My tractor has been out of commission for a while and I'm hoping I didn't just break another starter. I'm also hoping I don't have to change out my flywheel ring gear. There's decent wear on the front of the teeth, but no burrs. So as long as the starter isn't supposed to only ride on the front of those teeth I should be okay.
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ewhitaker0020
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Posted: 01 Sep 2020 at 9:43am |
I wanted to add that we spun the gear out before installing it on the tractor. After googling it looks like this might be a ratchet style bendix? If it is it looks like we shouldn't have spun it out before installing the starter on the tractor.
We didn't really have any trouble getting the starter installed on the tractor. Did we break the starter by installing it like this? Or do we just need to remove the starter and reset the bendix back down?
Or am I completely off on the style of starter on this tractor?
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PaulB
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Posted: 01 Sep 2020 at 9:51am |
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Look in the starter hole to see what the condition of the flywheel ring gear is. Those new style can be damaged by extending them before installation.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
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ewhitaker0020
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Posted: 01 Sep 2020 at 9:58am |
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The ring gear definitely has some wear. But, I'm not sure how much is too much.
So did we ruin the new starter? I can hear the starter gear spinning while we turn the key.
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DSeries4
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Posted: 02 Sep 2020 at 9:45am |
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If the ring gear "definitely has some wear" it is time to replace. You can try a million different starters, but nothing is going to happen with a bad ring gear.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Acdiesel
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Posted: 02 Sep 2020 at 10:58am |
you can put the starter Bendix drive gear back in by running it on a bench grinder against the wire wheel side, not a grinding wheel. Steiner Tractor has a video on how this is done, or you can check on YouTube. the engine running is what forces the Bendix to reset, but because your engine didn't start when you took the starter back out the Bendix would still be in the out position.
make sure your starter has the correct number of teeth, two different counts on those. I don't have the info. in front of me now, with the matched teeth count between the flywheel and the starter.
also you can move your flywheel to a different location looking in the starter hole where you see good teeth and try your starter there.( once you reset it)
Dan
Edited by Acdiesel - 03 Sep 2020 at 10:41am
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 02 Sep 2020 at 3:38pm |
there's 2 diferent starters that I know of for the D-14. A 6 volt one( has a metal 'banding' strap to cover the brushes and a 12 volt unit NO banding strap. You can't mix them as # of teeth on bendix and ringgear are different. Tried that one day....oopsy..
Any 'chewed' ringgear should be replaced or at least rotated 30-50* from where it was. Engines stop at 1 of 2 places,so 'chewy' happens at that spot when bendix doesn't fully engage. If you split tractor to replace the $100 ringgear, put in new pilot bushing and throwout bearing while you're in there.....
Jay
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john(MI)
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Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 2:20am |
I had an issue with mine grinding at times. I took it to a repair shop and had him comveert it to 12 volt. Works fine every time. The leading edge of the teeth on a ring gear have the front edge beveled off. It looks like they are worn but it's designed that way. The starter gear, i believe, has a bevel on the teeth on it as well. It sounds like you have the incorrect ring gear. Check the S/N to find out which one you are supposed to have. Although I don't know how it would have even started since the teeth are different sized. If the bendix works on the bench, maybe you need to look at the wiring connections from the battery to the starter. You also need to clean the front of the starter and the hole in the tractor where it sits. That will ensure a good ground. Clean your battery terminals and take the ground cable off and wire brush where it connects to the tractor.
If you are getting the starters from the same vendor and they are rebuilt they may have the incorrect solenoid on them. You need to find a local rebuild shop and have them rebuild it and converted to 12v.
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 7:13am |
To further Jay's post.
Is your D14 6 or 12 volt and what is the serial number? By the parts book: Tractors prior to S/N D14 19001 and engines 149-19070 were 6 volt. The ring gears have 93 teeth and the starter drives to match have 9 teeth. Starting with tractor S/N D14 19001, and engines 149-19070, were 12 volt. Those ring gears have 116 teeth and the starter drives have 10 teeth. If someone did a 6 to 12 conversion and installed a 12v starter they would have had to install a 12 volt (116 tooth) ring gear. So with the commonly made 6-12 conversion, you need a 6 volt starter with a 9 tooth drive, not a 12 volt starter. (Ideally a 6 volt starter rebuilt electrically to be 12 volt.) How many teeth on your starter drive? How many teeth on your ring gear?
If it had been working properly for a long time and just started getting worse until it reached this point, it is likely just wear of the ring gear and starter drive, for which repair ideas have been given. The info from the parts book will help you be sure the number of drive teeth is correct to match the ring gear.
Jim
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DiyDave
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Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 5:52pm |
Starter doesn't have to be converted to 12V, It will run the same, 6 or 12 volts... 
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 6:36pm |
 DiyDave wrote:
Starter doesn't have to be converted to 12V, It will run the same, 6 or 12 volts... |
I don't disagree, mine haven't been converted  . But ideally they should be electrically converted to 12 volt. Some have had issues like broken nose housings from harsh engagement with 12 volts supplied to a 6 volt starter. Who knows one of mine may be next.
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DSeries4
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Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 9:58pm |
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My D14 has had 12 volts feeding the 6 volt starter since the lat 1980s. Have not broken a single nose housing yet.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 04 Sep 2020 at 8:12am |
If the Tractor sits a lot, you probably got a lot of moisture in the unit itself and the drive is hanging up due to rust or partially stuck. That is a common problem with Tractors that sit for long periods of time. Moisture gets into everything especially electrical components like Starters, Mags, Generators. Mother Nature can play havoc with stuff like that. Remove the band, and clean up the com plate where the brushes are. That may clear up the drive issue of engaging and returning... Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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