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Allis Chalmers forklift engine info

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Hawsie View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 1:09am
   I have had this engine for a number of years. It is a 4 cylinder and it is tagged as a D436T. I think it is late 70s every early 80s. It originally came out of an ex air force forklift. I always thought it was a neat engine being turbo charge and at one time even considered putting it in my HD6 but I ended up using s 3-71 instead. Well I can't find any info about this engine. I did find one other person selling one but nuploads/9178/IMG_2495_2019-04-14_23-34-01.jpgo parts info. I was thinking about reviving it as it need the injection pump rebuilt. But I somehow misplaced or lost the water pump, and I figure if I can't source another one then it makes little sense putting money into the pump. Does anyone know if parts are available for these engines? Or possibly another engine thats more common that uses the same parts such as the water pump? 
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Hawsie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hawsie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 1:21am
  This is what I was thinking about putting it in although the Detroit does run and power it well. This tractor was a victim of California'uploads/9178/IMG_0478.jpgs war on older equipment. I bought it at auction a while back and it had been supposedly destroyed for emissions credits. The frame was cut in half in two pieces and a hole was cut in the block. By the way I have more of the HD 6 decals as I had them made based on the originals and made more then I needed.  uploads/9178/IMG_0467.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 10:51pm
I think the D436 is an IHC engine, either that to a Russian jet aircraft engine, my money is on binder.  Ought to be parts for something like that.  Looks like Amazon has them for $109.05.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 5:24am
As I noted in your previous post about this, some photos of the entire engine and if you know the actual model of the forklift it might help.

A Waukesha D436T shows in list of some of the various engine parts suppliers on line. Pioneer Engines, for one, shows that model in their listing of forklift engines.

Waukesha Engine Historical Society may be able to help you using the info on the engine tag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hawsie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 10:46pm
God I hope its and IHC engine! I know it always comes up under D436. But I know it isn't as the Int D436 isn't turbo charged and it is a 6 cylinder and is much longer a lot different looking. My engine tag says Allis Chalmers on it but then again so does the transmission, it has another tag that says Borg Warner too. Here are some more pictures. I guess it must be pretty uncommon. There is that other guy who is selling one online that is completely rebuilt. It comes up if you google D436T. I bet his engine is an ex military rebuild surplus engine. Starting to look like it may be scrap after all. I did scrap the forklift itself years ago I don't think I have nay info left from it. I will look around.Here are more pictures. Maybe it is at the tail end of Alliis Chalmers production.uploads/9178/IMG_2502.jpguploads/9178/IMG_2498.jpguploads/9178/IMG_2497.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 6:05am
First, What model is the forklift. Indoor or rough terrain. The Blue valve cover got me thinking FORD engine assuming it a gas. A-C used some FORD engines in the later RT forklifts  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 6:25am
Again, I believe it is a Waukesha D436T.

The yellow one is gas but some of the components were used on both gas and diesel, as is common. Look at the intake manifolds, bell housing, rocker cover, oil cooler and filter set up in these photos.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 9:30pm
Sorry I got you excited about it being an IHC.  Looking at the picture makes me sure it is not.  The water pump may have been used on other engines so if you could find a part number, perhaps you can find a pump.  Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FRKLIFTGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 10:10am
LOOKS LIKE AN AC G153 ENGINE.
THE SIX CYLINDER VERSION WAS A G230

WHEN AC MADE THE DIESEL VERSION THEY USED D INSTEAD OF G IN THE MODEL.

MILITARY LIFTS WERE OFTEN A LITTLE DIFFERENT THEN REGULAR PRODUCTION
THUS ENGINE MODEL COULD BE DIFFERENT.

TRY G153 FOR MODEL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 10:53am
I couldn't find a photo of a diesel. Compared to the Waukesha gas 153, all the photos of the AC G153 I found have the distributor on the opposite side of the block, manifolds are different, block is different and the rocker covers use the typical studs thru the center line of the cover to hold them on. I am still thinking Waukesha, I wonder if the part number (8513782) on his engine tag shows up in a master parts catalog anywhere?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 11:09am
That is a Waukesha D436T.  Like Jim says... Waukesha made their industrial engines on a lower end foundation to be set up as either spark ignition (gaseous or liquid carbeuration) or compression (diesel injection)... just change the head, induction, and replace the distributor with injection pump, and it's good.

Waukesha and Hercules (nee White-Hercules) were substantials suppliers of multifuel mil-spec engines, so many machines you see in military surplus will be Herkys and Wookies. 

In order to meet the spec (thus, win a contract), manufacturers would do many things... first, is to redesign, or build from scratch, a machine using major components that have already MET that spec in some other machine.  Example:  Let's say I I worked for a forklift manufacturer like Allis, and competing against Hyster, Yale, or Higgins, and wanted to win a 10,000-unit contract for a 20k forklift, I'd look at machines that were ALREADY in the supply chain... like a carry-deck crane, or an aircraft tug, or a self-propelled flightline container loader... and see that they all used a Waukesha D436T.  What I would do, is take my machine design, and alter it to accept the D436T, and then send a request for quote to Waukesha for the D436T to suit mil-spec.  They're already BUILDING the power unit, so they should be able to give me a very accurate production lead time and price for a quantity of 10,000 units.  By doing that, not only am I assured that I'll meet spec, I'll have very accurate costing AND... when I hand over my bid paperwork package, I'll have a complete list of required spares that has ALREADY been analyzed and approved prior, so MY BID will get processed much faster, AND, since that particular branch or outfit already HOLDS the part stores necessary to maintain this engine, they won't NEED to make an additional purchase, so the opportunity cost for MY offering are substantially lower, hence my chances for winning the contract are much, much, much higher.

You will also see military suppliers do one other thing:  Sub the whole thing.  Here's an example:  Consolidated Diesel Electric is the name on all the badges of my big 35kw generator.  It has a 338ci Hercules JXLD inline six, driving a Kato generator head, and had a big huge control cabinet with enough relays to make a Bally pinball machine feel naked inside.

Consolidated Diesel bought basically the whole thing from Kato... everything but the contents of the big box full of relays... they had another outfit make all that, and SEND it to KATO, where the thing was wired up, fired up, and tested.  Then they had Kato slap CONSEC badges on it, and put it on trucks to the contracted points.  KATO picked the JXLD because it was the same engine base used in a bunch of military vehicles.  Consec selected KATO because they'd already appeared in many mil contracts...  The goofy part, though, is that KATO bidded on the same contract, and lost to CONSEC (probably because they offered a better control system at a higher cost, which in the end, would have been a better choice because the CONSEC strategy was to chronically underbid jobs to 'win' them, then 'up-scope', and sue for the difference... after.

And again, I digress.  You have a Wookie.  Good engine.  Does it run?  if so, put it back in and run it hard... Great engines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 11:14am
When comparing, ignore EVERYTHING from the top of the block UP... this all changes from compression to spark ignition.

Look at the LOWER END.  Notice to left of dipstick- protrusion in the casting for oil pump system.  It's a very unique shape....  Waukesha. 

If it has an AC badge on it, it's because they PUT it on to give it proper military/government contract ID.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2019 at 10:03pm
Am I correct if thinking that John Deere bought Hercules sometime in the late 1950's.  I heard that they finally decided they needed a real engine...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 4:49am
Originally posted by JohnCO JohnCO wrote:

Am I correct if thinking that John Deere bought Hercules sometime in the late 1950's.  I heard that they finally decided they needed a real engine...

Not AFAIK, John.  Deere went into a partnership, with Caterpillar.  Cat was going to show them how to make 4-6-8 cyl motor castings, Deere was supposed to stay out of the construction equipment market...  We all know how that worked out...Wink

IIRR, White bought Hercules, and ended up in Agco family...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 5:04am
A quick check on line doesn't look like it, not that I think everything on line is correct. Condensed info: Over the years Hercules acquired a couple other engine manufacturers, then were passed through several hands themselves, including being under White Motors/White Engines at one time. It looks like they last operated as Hercules Engines, Inc, after being with White. Wikipedia says they closed in 1999. No mention of John Deere or AGCO acquiring them.

Edited by Jim.ME - 24 Apr 2019 at 5:06am
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