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Allis B serial numbers problem
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dywlc View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 Nov 2011
Location: Cheshire UK
Points: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dywlc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Allis B serial numbers problem
    Posted: 19 Nov 2011 at 6:43am
I have just entered the world of antique tractors by buying an 1947 (I'm told???) Allis b. The guy who stamped the gearboox and engine must have been a six stone (84lbs) weakling. The indented numbers/letters are so faint, and not through rust, it's almost impossible to read them. Using a torch at different angles and a good magnifying glass I have come up with the following:
Gearbox (by the gear shift lever) EB104152
Engine (LHS by bellhousing) RL17293K
 
Can anyone say if these make any sense and what year she is? I have looked at three serial number lists on the web and they all seem to be different having 4, 5 and 6 digit numbers for the serial number?????
 
Would welcome some guidance from someone who knows his stuff!
 
Clwyd 
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MNLonnie View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Baxter MN
Points: 4791 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MNLonnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2011 at 7:45am
The one on the tranny would be 1950 except for the E, that just doesn't belong there. The engine # with an R prefix and a K suffix would make it a Kerosene motor from a power unit or an RC tractor but the L doesn't make sense. Does your tractor have a second 1 gallon gas tank? Try getting the area clean as possible and rub chalk over it and then wipe off the excess, chalk might stay in the numbers?
Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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MNLonnie View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Baxter MN
Points: 4791 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MNLonnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2011 at 7:50am
Hold on now, all bets are off, you're not in the United States. You probably have a foriegn Allis tractor. I don't know anything about those.
Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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Jeff Z. NY View Drop Down
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Points: 7326 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Z. NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2011 at 8:40am


These were British built at the Essendine plant.
I believe the first one built there started with serial number EB4001.
I Love Meatballs and Dumplings on Toast with Gravy and Rosemary and ??? {Open For Suggestions}
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Points: 7326 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Z. NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2011 at 8:55am
Found this on Wikipedia:


After the second world war Allis Chalmers operated factories in the United Kingdom at Totton (to 1950) in Hampshire and Essendine in Rutland. Formerly the Minneapolis-Moline factory.

Model EB (1951-1957) British built model B with a straight front axle. EB serial numbers from Essendine works began at EB-4001. Some 2000 were assembled at the Totton, Southampton facility between 1947/9 from imported CKD kits but using US serial numbers locally stamped with an additional E prefix. Theoretically there may be duplication of serial numbers with later English production tractors.
I Love Meatballs and Dumplings on Toast with Gravy and Rosemary and ??? {Open For Suggestions}
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 85549 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2011 at 9:01am
EB is English as mentioned. THe first tractors had engines shipped from the US and assembled tractors as kits in England. Later the tractor components were more English design.. Some things to check, the US motor was a CExxx, the English  with your RL may not be ?  You  have a photo of the motor. Carb on left, mag on front right, oil filler thru the hood ?  YOu probably have a LUCAS electric systme, battery, generator, starter. Your rear wheels might bolt on like an automobile where most US models had a center splined shaft.. Post photos, and there are a couple guys from the UK on here that probably konw a lot more than above.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 85549 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2011 at 9:05am
Here is a post i copied from "Dave" several years ago--he is one of your boys.

English MODEL b TRACTOS PER  Dave Everett or Australia

Going in further, EB4001 was produced in November 1950 from english manufactured main components and EB 5811 was produced in 1951, seemingly about 1800 tractors on the 2 years. Therefore as the last 3 speed EB made was serial no EB12945, the conclusion has to be that 8945 English built EBs were manufactured between November 1950 and the change of production to the 4 speed model which in turn became the D270 in 1957. By this assumption that the factories produced approx 1200 tractors per year as an average (100 per month) a close dating for the serial numbers must approximate out as follows.
November 1950-December 1950 EB4001 to EB4201
January 1951-December 1951 EB4202 to EB5402
January 1952-December 1952 EB5403 to EB6603
January 1953-December 1953 EB6604 to EB7804
January 1954-December 1954 EB7805 to EB9005
January 1955-December 1955 EB9006 to EB10206
January 1956-December 1956 EB10207 to EB11407
January 1957 on EB11408 to EB12945

While this list may not be 100% accurate due to varying prodution rates Giving the infomation that I have been able to obtain from all sources, namely word of mouth of old dealers and the original factory and dealer parts books in my possession maybe this will help some people as to a closer dating of their tractor. A discrepency does arise on the higher numbers which at first appearance could cause 2 tractors to have the same number. BUT the parts books are different for English built and US built tractors and in some cases the parts listed are not interchangeable between US and English tractors from serial no EB5811 and up. The main differences appear to be that the English B has Lucas electrics with Butler lights and a cast aluminum Zenith carburetor.The ammeter box is also different as it contains both a light switch and magneto cutoff switch plus a push button starter switch and is both thinner and angular in appearance. The magneto being a Lucas SR4C and the steering wheel having fully coated spokes as opposed to the bare metal of the US built model. it would also appear that bearings can be of different sizes. Also at around the time of the changeover from USA kitbuilt tractors to English homebuilt, the electrical system went from 6v to 12v starting with tractor no EB 11508 when starting and lighting equipment became standard fitment (with the exception of 16 tractors), certainly by 1956 (Lucas service sheet CE858 dated 1956). Another identifying feature is the drawbar which change from the USA horseshoe shape to the straight bar which when used in reverse position became part of the linkage for the 3 point lift system.With the information that I have available, it is uncertain how many 4 speed EB and EBD were produced before the introduction of the D270 in 1957 which was basicly a restyled B available with both Diesel and Kerosene motors. Maybe Darrin could use some of this information to try to help with the gap in the ED serial number dating sequence.

100478

EB numbers seen to start from about 1946, so a best guess would be that you have a 1946 or 47 tractor, which for certain would have been produced from the Totton, Southampton plant. It should have, if fitted, a Lucas M418G starter and a C39 Lucas generator and Lucas SR4 magneto. Also the correct Ammeter box will have a push button starter switch working a remote solenoid and a light switch fitted. I have the original factory parts books here for both the Totton and Essendine factory productions runs for the english Bs including the Perkins P3 engined B, if you need any information.

100478
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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dywlc View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 Nov 2011
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Points: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dywlc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2011 at 8:28am

Well, what an amazing response. What did people like me do before the interwebnet thing!!!!

I thank all of you who have responded.

Yes I am in the UK so the EB was to be expected. It was the number of digits after the EB that confused me.

It is a Kerosine motor with a small one gallon petrol tank under the hood (see you got me talking American English now, that should be under the bonnet in the UK). Mine does have the straight axle with adjustable track width.

Jeff Z says the EB with straight axle were produced from 51 to 57. I’m told by the seller that it was a 1947. He could have told me it was originally used in the space programme of 1948 and I wouldn’t know any different, well maybe !!!!  If it is a 47 then is it a CKD unit? Did the CKD’s have a straight or bow front axle anyone?

The engine has no battery, generator, starter or electrics of any kind, not even central locking!! Its crank start, obviously, and the magneto is not a name I’m familiar with. Lucas would be the favourite for the UK I guess but it’s not Lucas. Allison, it’s a she, is in a lock up garage a couple of miles away so I can’t pop out to have a look but Fairbanks springs to mind??? I may be wrong, I may be recalling a refurb article I read.

I have ordered a new (well, refurb) carburettor from the US. The carb fitted to it now is a cast iron Zenith made in USA so I wanted the same to go on. The UK Zenith is alloy and slightly taller in the choke tube giving a 10mm step between the carb. inlet and the air filter outlet.

The puzzle I have is that the serial No’s. Have 4 or 5 digits and as far as I can see mine “appears” to have six digits after the EB which don’t make sense. I read mine as being EB104152. Is there a suffix? Should I be reading EB10415Z or something??? If that’s the case then it would have been built in 1956 which is a lot later than the 1947 I was told by the seller. Illegitimate so and so!!! I, like you say, will have to do something to make the markings stand out more.

Moving on further through your replies, the drawbar (no lifting linkage) is the horse-shoe type and the transmission is 3 speed.

I let you guys mull over what I have writ. If you can think of anything else that might successfully date her then let me know. Like I say I am very new to this antique tractor scene and welcome anything you can throw at me. At the moment Allison is a bit of a mish-mash (mixture) would you agree.

Thanks again, in order of appearance, Lonnie, Jeff Z and Steve.

Regards

Clwyd Smallwood

Dywlc.
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Jeff Z. NY View Drop Down
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Points: 7326 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Z. NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2011 at 9:15am
I have never heard of a Z suffix for them.
I Love Meatballs and Dumplings on Toast with Gravy and Rosemary and ??? {Open For Suggestions}
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