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Allis B runs a while then quits

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RSouth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSouth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Allis B runs a while then quits
    Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 8:39pm
I rebuilt the Marvel carb because the B kept stalling on me when I put only a light load on her. Got to the point even letting out on the clutch nice and slow would cause her to stall. Now that I've rebuilt the carb, she runs good for 15 minutes or so then the same thing happens, she starts missing stalls out. I've tried giving her some choke when she does it thinking she is running lean but it does not seem to help and she quits anyway.

I'm starting to wonder what is going on and thought it was the carb but maybe not. Next I'm going to put the old, non rubber tipped needle valve back in and try it again in case it's sticking and if that does not work I'll try re-adjusting the float. I set it as instructed at 1/4" from the gasket but maybe it needs to be 3/8" or so. All fuel lines have been changed and have added a filter along with using the original fuel sump. I've cleaned, soaked and brushed every part of the Marvel carb and feel pretty sure I've done all I can to be sure I have missed nothing there.. I will keep trying until I figure it out and then move on to spark plugs, wires, points, condenser etc.

Any ideas other may have to share that might point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnkc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 8:59pm
What does it take to get her going again after she has died? Check for spark at this time. Also are you running the correct spark plugs? Also what is the history of the ignition system?
I support the development of hybrid automobiles and alternative fuels as I need DIESEL fuel for my ALLIS CHALMERS!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 9:02pm
RSouth,
Sounds like a fuel deliver issue.  I think you've covered everything that I would look at.  One more thing though...make sure there isn't air blocking the flow of fuel to the carb.  This happens to me.  I always open the petcock on the carb bowl, then open the fuel tank petcock.  Once fuel is coming out the carb, I close it off.  This method establishes an unbroken fuel supply to the carb.  Good luck.  Let us know what the problem was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sandman2234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 9:37pm
Unvented fuel cap? Fuel restriction in the tank. If your getting a good supply of fuel, check the spark when it starts acting up, coil may be getting hot.
 David from jax
A proud member of the Allis Express movement!
               Northeast Florida
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Everett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2015 at 3:35am
Mag coil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSouth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2015 at 4:19am
Thank all for responding, I'm leaning toward mag coil too now. It just makes sense now that I think about it. Every time this happens the tractor runs good for 10-15 minutes if that long before it starts acting up and quits. Let it cool down about the same amount of time and it will start and run a few minutes and quit again.
checked the fuel cap and it was venting well, no issue there. I'll check the plugs next but it was running fine before on the same plugs.
Not sure of the history of the tractor but it ran fine for me until recently on the same plugs etc. Kind of why I thought it was the carb to begin with because it seemed as thought it was calling for fuel when under a load and would begin to break down, start missing the quit.
I have to agree and feel now, thinking back how once it cools down it starts and runs good until it warms up.
I will keep at it until I figure it ....
Thanks again!!!
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2015 at 7:25am
Next time it quits, pull a plug wire from a plug and hold the metal end a quarter to 1/2" from the head or block, anything ground and crank it. There should be at least a quarter inch, preferably a half inch blue spark in air. There is a chance you will get bit through the wire insulation too. Make that check before running it too, to learn how much spark it should have.

Its possible the condenser is the problem not the coil, and its cheaper to replace when replacing parts is the only test possibility.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigtrain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2015 at 8:14am
Suggest that you start by checking the spark right after it quits. It could be either the coil or condenser shorting after things heat up. Same thing applies to the fuel supply. as quick as possible after it stops running try draining fuel from the carb. A rebuilt carb should work fine but try removing the fuel filter. It may be clogged or the wrong type. I've found that many fuel filters do not work well on gravity feed system. Just keep in mind that an engine needs basically three things to run. Fuel, air and a spark to ignite the fuel. Since it's doubtful that the air mixture is changing that leaves fuel and spark. 
Jim Wiggin
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2015 at 1:50pm
The first thing I would do is to remove the fuel line from the carburetor and drain a gallon of gas out thru the gas line.  I have had more problems with crap in the neck of the sediment bowl than coils.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Auntwayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2015 at 7:27pm
     I agree with Dick. How does the inside of the tank look ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dirtfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2015 at 8:38pm
Just my 2 cents.  I had similar problems with my D17 over the course of the last year.  I could get it to idle fine but put any load on her and she would start acting up.  I started on the fuel/air side and replaced/rebuild manifold & carb, replaced fuel line fittings and strainer.  All the while replacing cheap points and condensers on a frequent basis.  What finally made the difference?  Pertronix.  It's like a new beast.  Seriously.  If I would have started there first I could have saved myself a lot of trouble.  On the bright side, I got a lot of other things lined out along the way :)


Edited by dirtfarmer - 06 Dec 2015 at 8:21am
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RSouth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSouth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 6:16pm
Thanks for the replies, I will keep at it, start with removing the filter and re-cleaning the sump. I have a tank already to go that I cleaned and painted over the summer from the other B I'm restoring. I'll swap them out along with the sumps and remove the filter to see what happen. If that fails I will start working the electric side of it and replace the condenser and check the plugs and wires. If that fails then I'll consider going with electronic ignition.
Once I figure it out I'll be sure to post the results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allen Dilg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 7:42pm
Hello R South    I agree with Dick except open the plug under the carb, it should run a solid stream for a while, If not put a fine screen shaped like a cigarette in the fitting that screws into the tank. Good luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Miller (IA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 7:56pm
I have taken a small piece of tubing and made a stand pipe in the fuel tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 8:11pm
RSouth,  Where are you in Maryland?  Since it is not too big a state you cannot be too far away.  Love to meet another Maryland man.
As to your problem with my favorite, listen closely to what is said above.  You have some outstanding advice.  
One experience I had was the "rag in the tank" problem.  The customer lost the gas cap so used a rag till he got a new one.  The rag fell into the gas tank and was forgotten. Tractor would run for a while then the rag would block the gas exit.  Tractor stopped rag floated away only to repeat again and again.  
Also, I would suggest taking a good look at the coil.  If problems either get the coil replaced or get an electric ignition.
Take good care of my favorite.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
Bel Air, MD

ps:  let me know where you are.


Edited by Bill Long - 07 Dec 2015 at 8:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSouth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 10:50pm
Hi Bill,
Thank you for additional input. Very good advise for sure to take note of and apply. I just have to systematically eliminate each point and will eventually figure out what the heck is going on with the old girl.
I live near Salisbury by way of Milford Delaware where I grew up on a farm. Last year I bought a farm west of Seaford but just past the DE/MD line, near a small community called Reliance. We plan to build there and will have a private use grass airstrip, hence the B or B's for mowing and market garden plowing.
The B is out on the farm in a neighbors barn. I've used it for mowing some until this cranky issue surfaced. I have run the B all of maybe 3 hours or so since I bought it so I'm leaning as I go and have no real history to go on.
I do frequent northern Delaware often for my work so when I'm up that way I'm not too far from you.
Thanks again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 12:05pm
Dump 5 gallons of gas in the tank and then put a pail under the carb bowl drain.  Use a funnel and then open the drain.  If all 5 gallons comes out with no problem, you have an ignition problem.  I'd go with a new (USA made) condenser first and then a coil.  Go to NAPA...  I would lean more toward ignition I think, but check the gas first.  That is the easiest to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSouth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 6:05pm
Hi Ted,

Thank you for good advise... Today I think I'm getting closer to finding the issue. Today I cleaned the carb again, switched to a known clean fuel tank, made sure to try fresh fuel and another new fuel like just to be sure. The old girl ran perfect for, again, about 20 minutes. She started a light miss that grew into a few cylinders missing until she quit. Once she quit, I again checked the fuel flow by pulling the carb drain plug, plenty of fuel so I pulled the number 4 plug wire and cranked her over to see what kind of spark im getting. The spark seems strong and jumped the gap no problem but it was more yellow then blue as has been suggested. Next step will be to take good advise and get a good USA made condenser and try that.

Thanks again to all who are giving great advise. I hope sometime I'll be of help to someone else..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 6:42pm
If you have fuel and even a yellow spark it will run. It may be hard to start but it will not cause it to quit unless it really gets weak.  Improper point setting can give fits.  A bad condenser that is still letting you to have a spark will burn points. A bad condenser that is shorted out will not let you have a spark like the switch is off. I think I have only had one bad condenser in 50 some years that caused a problem. I still change them when changing points. 


Have you checked the valve clearance? Make sure you have at least .010 and .012 will not be a bad setting.  If tight valves are not your problem then I would start thinking about a bad manifold. Heat seems to be causing your problem so start thinking about what it could be changing. Manifold gaskets will be pinched tighter as the manifold will be hotter than the water cooled head. It could be a manifold gasket but unlikely.

I take one suspected problem and check it seven ways from Sunday to prove that it is or is not my problem before jumping to the next.  It sounds like you have done this with fuel. The next time check for spark instantly after it quits before it gets a chance to cool.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2015 at 6:18am
I agree with Dick now, not a fuel problem.  Something to do with heat.... after it warms up.
I'd go with a condenser first.  Put it in and try it.  If it does the same thing, take that one back out and put the old one back in.  Try a different coil.  Do the same thing.  If it is not the problem, take it back out and we'll go on from there.  The reason I say this is because you may be putting in a bad NEW part.  Yes, it happens.  There have been enough guys on here that went to their wits end with new parts and changed them out and it purrs like a kitten.  ONE of the reasons I buy only the USA made (which is getting harder to find) parts.
I have had 3 condensers fail me in my life time.  I have had numerous coils go bad on me though.  And you have the symptoms of that.  Just flat out dies when it gets hot enough.
Could also be an ignition wire..... heat.... expands and grounds out, rubbing somewhere... just thinking out loud...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j.w.freck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2015 at 10:35pm
believe dave has it figured out,especially if you have a magneto.if you have a mag.dont use carbon wires on the plugs,copper wire only.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSouth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 4:27pm
Thanks again for all who have given great advise. I'm going to follow each one given until I get it sorted out.

Where can I find genuine UAS made parts, mag coil, points and condenser, copper ignition leads etc. ?

I'm very appreciative of all the suggestions and others knowledge.
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B-B Custom Circuits in New Jersey. Steve is a sponsor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSouth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2015 at 4:58pm
Thanks again to all who gave input to help me figure out the issue. I had the day off today to work some on the B. I cracked open the mag to change the points and condenser and look over the coil. I found the issue, it was the coil but not what we all thought. When I took the old points and condenser out I noticed a melted spot, very small, on the coil wire on the very bottom of the wire, out of obvious sight. It was chaffing the very bottom of the mag housing causing it to arch enough to melt a tiny spot on the wire.
I pulled it all apart, fixed the chafed area with heat shrink tube, put it back together, set the points gap, closed it up and gave her a whirl.
She started on the first turn and ran perfect for well of a hour. Just to be sure I also put a load on it cutting high pasture grass with no issues.
Thanks again for everyone's help, I'm still finding it hard to believe that tiny area was enough to cause the issue but no doubt at all that was in fact the issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2015 at 5:32pm
Electrons are smaller than even hydrogen molecules that are the smallest molecules. So it doesn't take much of a hole for high voltage electrons to sneak out.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2015 at 7:52am
Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap
Ain't it grand when everything comes together and it is so easy to fix!!
BUT, SO HARD TO FIND!!
Seems like it is usually that way.
Glad you got it!!
Now what you gonna fix?! Big smile Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradley6874 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2015 at 9:59am
Rsouth iam in Salisbury you need any part give me call got several b s in the parts yard sent you pm with contract
You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSouth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 6:38pm
Update on AC B running and quitting!!!

Since I've last posted on this topic, my run a while and quit issue returned after I thought I had it all figured out and fixed but I was wrong.

I have followed every step suggested in detail to the point today after adjusting the valves and still having the same issue, I feel I might finally be narrowing it down but need more input again as I progress.

I ran the B pulling a 7' disc prepping to plant grass this coming year that will be my turf runway on my farm.
I noticed small black specs all over the hood and fuel tank after running it for about 30 minutes when again it lost power and quit. I pulled the manifold and installed a new one that I have that was bought for my other B that I'm overhauling as the final step to try to figure this out. When I pulled the manifold off the two top center manifold bolts backed out. The left one which is near the intake, started seeping fluid which I think was coolant but hard to tell for sure because it was not a lot but enough to tell that a leak of some sort is occurring, hence my thoughts of seeing the specs on the cowling / hood, possibly coming out of the muffler. My assumption is that maybe I have a cracked head in the area of the intake valve.  Once heated enough to expand the crack to allow coolant to enter and mix with the fuel/air mixture and finally after running long enough to get hot enough for this to occur, the crack opens enough to cause the engine to begin losing power then shuts down.
Has anyone had this issue ever occur or have thoughts on this as being my issue?
Thanks again for all who have contributed in the past as my saga continues Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8070 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 7:03pm
I had one do this a yr ago did all I could do to get it fixed . I then was at a friends shop one night and ask him what it could be . He said did u put new plugs in I said no it run good y . He said I had a truck do it to me when it go hot the plugs would jump from the plug the the head and it would miss and stop . Isay OK how u fine this at drak u could see it I put new plus in and run great . Just my two cents .
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