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WF owner 
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Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
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 Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 6:46am |
I have to side with Dick on this one.
If I was building an engine for pulling and was planning to turn it a lot more than it was originally designed to run, I would probably line bore it.
Most of us that are rebuilding old tractor engines that originally had shims aren't working them really hard. The guys that are still farming are using them to do the "light work" because they have much bigger tractors to do the hard work. Others are using them to mow grass, run a bush hog, or (like me) strictly for a hobby.
These engines have lived very long lives with shims and I see no reason to spend a lot of money on an engine that will live longer (with shims) than I will.
If a person wants to line bore, it's their $$$. I have better places for mine.
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DougS
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 6:54am |
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To me the dividing line is "do you need to have the crank reground?" If you're going to have the crank reground you may as well spend the extra $ and do a first class job.
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 12071
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 7:31am |
I don't know if that's a 100% true Curt. There are a lot of my customer's that still rely on their Tractors to make a living with because they don't want, (or can't afford) to go partners with the bank on a new piece of equipment that they can't even work on anymore! A lot of our customer's I talk with from all around the country (and out of this country) use their Tractors to make a living. Yup, there are a lot like you say to. Hobby guys (like myself) and folks that don't use their older Tractors so hard everyday like when they were new in the 40's n' 50's, but they're out there. I've built a lot of wiring harnesses and rebuilt a lot of electrical components for customer's that still rely on their antique Tractor to do a certain job on their farm... Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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chaskaduo
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Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Location: Twin Cities
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 7:44am |
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At $770 a month, I'll have to go the shim route when I do rebuild, and damn glad I can.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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WF owner
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Location: Bombay NY
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 7:44am |
I suppose we could argue this forever! LOL
Of the tractors that used shims, I think the WD was the biggest production tractor that is still being used a lot. The U and A might have been bigger, but I don't know of many (any) that are really still working.
Not many WD's are doing hard work. They may be pulling wagons and things like that, but I remember when our WD chopped corn and did all the tillage work. Not many of any of the tractors that used shims, are still doing that kind of work.
We kind of highjacked his thread arguing about shims.
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nella(Pa)
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 8:01am |
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How do you check an engine to see if it needs to be line bored?
Edited by nella(Pa) - 03 Sep 2019 at 8:02am
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 8:20am |
 DaveKamp wrote:
Well... I'm certain it was a function of economics, but I don't think that representation is really accurate.
I would venture an educated guess that they used shims in the first place, because it yielded a result that was appropriate for the combination of manufacturing economics, tooling systems, and consistancy in end results that they felt most appropriate.
Align boring is a resource-intensive process, and keep in mind that resources include, but aren't limited to materials, manpower, or machinery... or TIME.
Shims DO have their benefits.
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The process used to line bore the block in the factory, wouldn't have been any different, with or without the shims. The block would have had the caps bolted up and bored to size either way, so I'm guessing it had to do with someones idea of who and where it might get worked on after a certain amount of wear in the bearings.
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Sugarmaker
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Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 9:18am |
Folks, My uncle did a lot of engine overhauls that he only re-ringed the pistons. Some of the issue was cost, the other was time. These tractors or trucks needed to get back on the road or in the field in a few days. Not 6 months like it took me to get my 45 done. He did comment that it was probably not the best thing to do but it was a quick fix. Regards, Chris |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet, 66 F100.
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HoughMade
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Location: Valparaiso, IN
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 9:35am |
Sooner or later, I'll probably rebuild the engine in my B. It is 68 years old and as far as I can tell, the engine is as from the factory. The last 30 years it has done light duty lawn mowing, but for the first almost 40 years, it lived a rougher life. Money's not an issue, but I'm trying to figure out how I could expect "better" than the almost 70 years the original shimmed bearings have done.
Good luck with the rebuild and keep us up to date on the progress!
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1951 B
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DougS
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 10:45am |
HoughMade wrote:
Sooner or later, I'll probably rebuild the engine in my B. It is 68 years old and as far as I can tell, the engine is as from the factory. The last 30 years it has done light duty lawn mowing, but for the first almost 40 years, it lived a rougher life. Money's not an issue, but I'm trying to figure out how I could expect "better" than the almost 70 years the original shimmed bearings have done.
Good luck with the rebuild and keep us up to date on the progress! |
It depends on what you're in it for. If you're a collector and you don't do any real heavy work, as built should be good enough. OTOH if you like to do engine rebuilding as a hobby, then it depends on what degree you want to rebuild the engine. Some are happy to re-ring the engine and replace the seals. Some want to do everything including a line bore while throwing in a complete rebuild kit. Whatever trips your trigger. It's the same with those asking electrical questions. Some want to best battery and charging system available. Some are happy with it as it was from the factory. Of course financial resources come into play. How much do you have available for your hobby or machinery investment? I've seen people spend more on vices than I could ever imagine. To each their own.
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Dick L
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 3:12pm |
When I get done rebuilding an engine with shims I feel I have it as accurate as it came from the factory. Anyone that wants to take the time to learn and pay attention to details can do the same. I understand that everyone does not have a mold building shop with the tooling and measuring tools. A properly shimmed rod or main bearing is no different than it is after line boring. It is only quicker in 60 years to overhaul with less people to walk you thru the shimming. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I forgot! I found it fun to measure the rods, rod bearings, crankshaft as well as all the parts to find in spec used parts rather than just buy new.   
Edited by Dick L - 03 Sep 2019 at 3:18pm
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Dick L
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 3:21pm |
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 8:47pm |
I have half a dozen B tractors. Most have "overhauled motors". I have never had a crank turned, or block line bored. My "standard overhaul" is complete disassembly, mike everything, see if I can reuse the bearings with new shimming,, or buy new bearings... I hone the cylinders, new rings, lap the valves... a new guide now and then ... and all new gaskets. I have pushed the limit on cylinder taper and journal "round ness" a few times. You just have to know exactly what your doing, as Dick said.. With a carb overhaul and a good starter and mag, they roll off on 1-2 revolutions of the motor and run great.
OH.. and pull the liners to replace the O-rings and clean the block.. and replace freeze plugs in the head.
Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Sep 2019 at 8:54pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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nella(Pa)
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Location: Allentown, Pa.
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Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 4:57am |
steve(ill) wrote:
I have half a dozen B tractors. Most have "overhauled motors". I have never had a crank turned, or block line bored. My "standard overhaul" is complete disassembly, mike everything, see if I can reuse the bearings with new shimming,, or buy new bearings... I hone the cylinders, new rings, lap the valves... a new guide now and then ... and all new gaskets. I have pushed the limit on cylinder taper and journal "round ness" a few times. You just have to know exactly what your doing, as Dick said.. With a carb overhaul and a good starter and mag, they roll off on 1-2 revolutions of the motor and run great.
OH.. and pull the liners to replace the O-rings and clean the block.. and replace freeze plugs in the head.
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X2 Good info here and like Dr. Allis said, put in new cam bearings. If you have a bearing driver, that helps a lot. Be sure to get the oil holes lined up in the new bearings to the holes in the block.
Edited by nella(Pa) - 04 Sep 2019 at 5:00am
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