Allis 180 Rear Rim Sizes

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   Hi folks,The tires & rims on my 180 are starting to leave much to be desired; tires are weather-cracked and worn, and the rims are a little rotten around the valve stem. My plan was to pull them off this winter, weld new steel around the valve stems, then put on a new set of tires.
I'd really like to change to larger tires however; the 28's are just too small for a 65 horse tractor in my opinion. 18.4-30's or 34's would be perfect. I think it would also help if I decide not to load the new tires, which I'd very much prefer. The only time I ever really need traction on this tractor is when pulling a 3-16 plow, and I think it would handle this fine with unloaded 30 or 34 tires.
I've read lots on here about people increasing tire size on these tractors, but can't seem to find how they're managing it with the existing centres. Were larger centres available for these tractors? And (if so) are there still some kicking around? I've seen and used step-up rims before, but can't find anything for 28 tires. Or am I into a new custom set of rims?
One wild thought I had was to cut some of the bead area off the existing 28 rims such that they can weld inside a set of 34 rims - essentially making my own step-up rims. It sounds dubious to me - not sure if I trust myself with my hand plasma or torches to cut well enough for a good fit. And if I botch it, I'm really pooched.
In all my years of tractor work, I've never changed rear tire sizes before, so I'm unfamiliar with what's typically done. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

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DanielW Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 19 Sep 2022 Location: Ontario Points: 183	Post Options Post Reply Quote DanielW Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Allis 180 Rear Rim Sizes Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 1:34pm
	Hi folks, The tires & rims on my 180 are starting to leave much to be desired; tires are weather-cracked and worn, and the rims are a little rotten around the valve stem. My plan was to pull them off this winter, weld new steel around the valve stems, then put on a new set of tires. I'd really like to change to larger tires however; the 28's are just too small for a 65 horse tractor in my opinion. 18.4-30's or 34's would be perfect. I think it would also help if I decide not to load the new tires, which I'd very much prefer. The only time I ever really need traction on this tractor is when pulling a 3-16 plow, and I think it would handle this fine with unloaded 30 or 34 tires. I've read lots on here about people increasing tire size on these tractors, but can't seem to find how they're managing it with the existing centres. Were larger centres available for these tractors? And (if so) are there still some kicking around? I've seen and used step-up rims before, but can't find anything for 28 tires. Or am I into a new custom set of rims? One wild thought I had was to cut some of the bead area off the existing 28 rims such that they can weld inside a set of 34 rims - essentially making my own step-up rims. It sounds dubious to me - not sure if I trust myself with my hand plasma or torches to cut well enough for a good fit. And if I botch it, I'm really pooched. In all my years of tractor work, I've never changed rear tire sizes before, so I'm unfamiliar with what's typically done. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

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Allis dave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2971	Post Options Post Reply Quote Allis dave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 2:06pm
	Are you wanting to keep the adustable spin out rim style? If so You need to fnd the right Centers to match. 18.4x30's seem to be preferred for a 180 or 185. You Can find some solid center wheels that will bold up but wouldn't be adjustable. I have 28's on my 185 and would like to have 30's, but my current tires are good and I can't see that extra 2" making a big enough difference to spend a lot of money on the project.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 2:30pm
	If you go to the Firestone tire flat-plate chart, I think you'll find an 18.4 x 28 has as much or more rubber on the ground than a 15.5 x 38 and maybe also a 16.9 x 34. I've got the chart at home and I'll check. I know a 16.9 x 28 has more rubber flat-plate contact than a 13.6 x 38 when comparing a 2510 John Deere to a One-Seventy A-C.

DanielW Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 19 Sep 2022 Location: Ontario Points: 183	Post Options Post Reply Quote DanielW Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 2:54pm
	Keeping the spin-out rims would be nice, but I'm rather doubting that's an option. Unfortunately here in Central Ontario parts tractors, wrecking yards, and specialty shops are pretty uncommon, so I'm stuck with what's readily available or that I can cobble together myself. Interesting point about the 28's having more contact than a thinner, taller tire. I was hoping to keep with the existing 18.4 width and going to 30's or 34's, because I have other tractors with 18.4-30's & 34's and extra tires kicking around. One of the reasons I'd like to go larger is not only for better traction if unloaded, but also for a smoother ride. Here in the shield some fields can be pretty rough. To compare: I have two Deere 2120's - one with 30's on it and the other with 38's. It's a night and day difference riding on them - the 38's are incredibly smooth.

DMiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33111	Post Options Post Reply Quote DMiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 3:48pm
	There were 30" Power Adjust centers for the 180/185 series, five rail instead of four as neighbor has a 185 with them. Currently impossible to locate centers for, as I HAVE been scouring. These also fit Massey and some smaller Ford tractors where they usually end up.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 4:57pm
	13.6 x 38 has 165 square inches of foot print...........15.5 x 38 has 180.........16.9 x 28's have 175 sq in......... 16.9 x 34's have 220.........18.4 x 28's have 250..........18.4 x 30 has 260........18.4 x 34's have 265 square inches. From the FIRESTONE tire foot print chart.

DougG Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8246	Post Options Post Reply Quote DougG Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 5:54pm
	What was Allis thinking when the went with those 28,s on the rear ? I have heard to protect the rear end ? Dont seem right tho

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 6:12pm
	Not sure what you're asking ?? A-C had used 28's since the later WC's and just kept making them wider. The new One Eighty was to bridge the HP gap from the D-17/ One-Seventy size to the mighty One-Ninety. It did just that at 64 HP. Now, they had to make the "size" smaller/lower/shorter than a One-Ninety, but larger/taller/longer than a D-17/One Seventy. Looks to me like they made a good performance choice by the Firestone foot print chart.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 6:38pm
	Let's compare an IH 656, Deere 3020 and Oliver 1650. All were in the 65 HP class. I believe they all had 15.5 x 38 or 16.9 x 34 tires. The 18.4 x 28 tire had a larger foot print and held more fluid. The height was 61 inches for the 15.5 x 38.....62 inches for the 16.9 x 34..... and 59.4 inches for the 18.4 x 28. All numbers from the Firestone tire chart.

soggybottomboy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Access Joined: 20 Feb 2018 Location: Iowa Points: 206	Post Options Post Reply Quote soggybottomboy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 9:41pm
	Several years ago I bought a pair of 16.9 30 wheels that came off the front of a Case IH magnum tractor. They were complete with hubs, rims, and tires. I had to paint the hubs because they were black, but they bolted right on to my Allis 170. 30 inch hubs are thicker and heavier than 28 inch.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 10:00pm
	They are heavier and thicker because they came off of the front of an FWA tractor, not because they are 30 inches in diameter.

soggybottomboy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Access Joined: 20 Feb 2018 Location: Iowa Points: 206	Post Options Post Reply Quote soggybottomboy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 7:15pm
	Was at the local tire store today, and there was a 185 getting some tire work done. The back wheels were 18.4-30s. I measured the hubs and they are 3/8ths of an inch thick, just like mine. All the 28 inch hubs that I have ever seen are 1/4 inch thick. Not saying there are no 28x3/8 inch hubs, but I have never seen one. Also, I have never seen 30 inch hubs that were only 1/4 inch thick.