Airplane mag on 45 Diesel- manual question

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On my quest to produce the best reproduction possible of the wd - wd-45, 45 diesel, d14 service manual I've come to realize, some of the litho illustrations just aren't that good and it has to do with bad litho photography leading to bad illustrations. that is to say, these dark illustrations have nothing to do with later reproduction methods.

Wasn't willing to let it go. The fuel injection illustrations are pulled from a Fiat Allis fuel injection pump service manual, I have since acquired. In adition to using illustrations out of the fuel pump service manual to replace the bad litho illustrations of the wd - wd-45, 45 diesel and d14 service manual, I'll be reproducing the fuel pump service manual separately. 

One last mystery. Ok there are bad litho photo illustrations of a bendix scintilla 6 cylinder mag(top right of miscellaneous page 50), a Fairbanks Morse (F.M.) mag(center right miscellaneous page 50) and an F.M. RV4 mag(top left of miscellaneous page 51). 

Does any one know the source material for these illustrations? Operators manual? Service manual? Bendix or Fairbanks mag manuals? 

pretty sure this is what's in the first illustration: currently available on ebay...

Edited by Tracy Jones - 15 May 2017 at 8:46pm

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Tracy Jones Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 31 Mar 2017 Location: Michigan Points: 27	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tracy Jones Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Airplane mag on 45 Diesel- manual question Posted: 15 May 2017 at 8:44pm
	On my quest to produce the best reproduction possible of the wd - wd-45, 45 diesel, d14 service manual I've come to realize, some of the litho illustrations just aren't that good and it has to do with bad litho photography leading to bad illustrations. that is to say, these dark illustrations have nothing to do with later reproduction methods. Wasn't willing to let it go. The fuel injection illustrations are pulled from a Fiat Allis fuel injection pump service manual, I have since acquired. In adition to using illustrations out of the fuel pump service manual to replace the bad litho illustrations of the wd - wd-45, 45 diesel and d14 service manual, I'll be reproducing the fuel pump service manual separately. One last mystery. Ok there are bad litho photo illustrations of a bendix scintilla 6 cylinder mag(top right of miscellaneous page 50), a Fairbanks Morse (F.M.) mag(center right miscellaneous page 50) and an F.M. RV4 mag(top left of miscellaneous page 51). Does any one know the source material for these illustrations? Operators manual? Service manual? Bendix or Fairbanks mag manuals? pretty sure this is what's in the first illustration: currently available on ebay... Edited by Tracy Jones - 15 May 2017 at 8:46pm

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Gerald J. Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gerald J. Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 May 2017 at 8:57pm
	Mags aren't used on diesels. Gerald J.

Tracy Jones Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 31 Mar 2017 Location: Michigan Points: 27	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tracy Jones Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 May 2017 at 9:01pm
	Which begs the question: Why include a photo illustration of a six cylinder mag? Wasn't the WD-45 Diesel the only 6 cylinder out of the WD, 45 or D14? Edited by Tracy Jones - 15 May 2017 at 9:03pm

Ferdinand Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 31 Mar 2016 Location: North Carolina Points: 1951	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ferdinand Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 May 2017 at 9:07pm
	I have a Bendix-Scintilla Magneto Service Manual for aircraft applications. None of the magnetos pictured look like aircraft mags. I suspect that ground based power units had the same internal parts but the body is deliberately made different so that it cannot be put on a airplane. I know this is true of the SLICK magnetos. And yes, that is curious why they depict a magneto for diesel engines. Could it be that mags are used for starting instead of glow plugs?
	Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it. Mathew 7:14

Norm Meinert Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Davis illinois Points: 470	Post Options Post Reply Quote Norm Meinert Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 May 2017 at 9:53pm
	The bendix-scintilla mag may have been used on the 844 cu. in. 6 cylinder engine used in the lo crawler. the engine used injection pump diesel and sparkplug for ignition. It only had 6.5 comp. ratio.

Tracy Jones Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 31 Mar 2017 Location: Michigan Points: 27	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tracy Jones Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 May 2017 at 3:12am
	so close... Edited by Tracy Jones - 16 May 2017 at 3:13am

DougS Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Location: Iowa Points: 2490	Post Options Post Reply Quote DougS Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 May 2017 at 5:30am
	A low compression diesel? Other than being able to run cheaper fuel, I see no advantage. The diesel economy comes from the high compression ratio.

Tracy Jones Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 31 Mar 2017 Location: Michigan Points: 27	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tracy Jones Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 May 2017 at 4:27pm
	Looks like it was 4 cyclinder, not 6... pics installed on a WC http://www.allis01.com/fossto/34WC/ac-wc-1934-magneto2.html http://www.allis01.com/fossto/34WC/ac-wc-1934-magneto.html

TomMN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elbow Lake, MN Points: 858	Post Options Post Reply Quote TomMN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 May 2017 at 9:42pm
	Yes, the LO could have used a 6 cylinder Bendix magneto, I know Dave Ferguson had a Bendix Scintilla mag on his 4 cylinder AO tractor which he ran on diesel fuel although it could have run on peanut oil or most any flamable oil, just not gasoline which is too thin. It isn't quite proper to call the LO, SO, or KO diesels since the diesel engine is compression ignition and these engines were low compression oil burners with spark ignition and were of the Hesselman design. http://www.wehs.net/hesselman.html and as this page says there was good reason for using the Hesselman design at that time: "Fuel supplies for many parts of the world were limited and inconsistent in content and availability. The HESSELMAN engine family was a perfect match for its time, being designed to run on most any application on most any refined oil. Whatever the port or station had for fuel, it was 'fill er up 'and we're on our way."

DaveKamp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 6079	Post Options Post Reply Quote DaveKamp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 May 2017 at 9:45pm
	Magnetos are frequently used on diesels in the following circumstances: 1) when the diesel is started by a spark ignition pony motor 2) when the diesel is setup to start on gasoline, then shift to diesel 3) when the diesel engine has been set up to run spark ignited, for natural gas or propane. 4) when the diesel engine is intended to run on diesel fuel, but at a much lower compression ratio, and much lower performance level, but on a much less complex fuel to refine... like 'distillate' tractor fuels... kerosene, etc. I owned a Caterpillar bulldozer for about 30 minutes once. A late '40's D8... it sat for 18 years when I arrived on the scene. Took me two hours to get the gasoline pony motor to start and run, fifteen minutes to make the big diesel engine start. It was a fun three hours.
	Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.

Tracy Jones Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 31 Mar 2017 Location: Michigan Points: 27	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tracy Jones Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 2017 at 3:40am
	Not that I'm not having fun with this topic, but does anyone have any ideas on the source material for the illustrations or the name of a forum member or mag enthusiast who might know?