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Air tools - need advise

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DougG View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 12:02pm
Looking to buy angle drive air tools , got a 3/8 one from Harbor Freight and it will not break anything loose - whats to look for in them ? Ive heard guys talk of twisting bolts off with theres, never seen that ! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 12:06pm
1st, make sure you ADD oil to the tool.. without oil they have low power
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 12:18pm

 Hey Doug,,Air powered or "Pneumatic" tools are more cost effective than electrics but do require more upkeep like regular oiling and cleaning. There a lot of variables in a good comparison such as CFM required for proper operation, main thing is a comparison of "Foot Pounds of Torque" the tool is rated at,,obviously the higher the Ft pounds of torque available,,the better the tool will perform. I'm sure HF has some on the low scale of Ft # and some on the hi scale of same. Do those comparisons as the HF will still be the lower priced ones. Don't buy the lowest ones of whatever brand you buy,,you'll prolly be unsatisfied.  Hope this helps you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 12:42pm
why a 3/8 angle drive  ?  access ?  If you want break out torque, use the standard 1/2 inch impact. --- 1000 ft pounds.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Stratton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 2:30pm
I am not a huge harbor freight fan, but I do use some of their tools. It seems to me like since they started making their "better" grade tools,their cheap tools got cheaper. Their plain metal impact wrenches are worthless in my book, but their red "earthquake" wrenches are pretty good. I also have one of their electric ones and it does better than a Dewalt I had.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 4:32pm
Are you talking air ratchet or air impact? Two different things.

Most 3/8" air ratchets I believe are only in the 50 to 60 ft. lb. range with a few exceptions rated higher. I think Proto has one that is supposed to be good for 90 ft. lb. I have a Chicago Pneumatic and you can jam a hand if you aren't paying attention when the fastener tightens up.

There are some right angle drive impacts out there and some right angle adapters that go on air impact wrenches. A right angle impact might break some bolts, depending on the size of the bolt and the torque rating of the impact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 7:37pm
I was told air  ratchets are good for 3/8 and smaller so you don't break so many fasteners. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 8:29pm
Personally, I rarely use my pneumatic tools since the cordless tools have got so good. I have a Milwaukee 1/2" impact that has 1200 ft. lbs. of breaking torque and I can use it anywhere without dragging an air hose.
I just saw that Ridgid has a new 1/2" impact that is rated for 1500 ft. lbs. 
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ingersall rand for  my 1/2  3/4 ,1" they have the most power
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 9:30pm
Doug, I owned a tire shop for 22+ years. There is only 1 brand of air wrench for everyday use.   Ingersoll Rand. In hundreds of hours of useage, they will out work and outlast anything else out there. I do not know if they make a gun like you need. I picked up one like you describe from one of the elcheapo places at flea market several years ago. I thought I needed it for a single job. After attempting to use it, I tossed it at the bench, missed the bench and it skid behind the bench. As far as I know it's still there. If I was going to use one frequently, I'd Google Ingersoll Rand and look for a good one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2020 at 5:54am
I bought a quality 3/8" drive one,30+ years ago...too dang NOISEY ! Had good torque but slow and....too dang NOISEY, haven't used it in 25+ years...
3/8 drive implies  smaller bolts so I'd go with a battery version. Probably cheaper than air,better torque vs $$ and shhh.. quieter too !!
I've been using the Ryobi drill/impact sets for years , still on the first set($100 buys them, 2 batts, charger) . I have 2 more kits, in boxes..cheaper than buying just a battery ! The impact has good torque, I'm guessing they have a right abgled version with same guts as they have a LOT of tools now...
might be an option ??
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After reading this and doing some research on Ingersoll Rand, I learned a couple things.

1. Ingersoll Rand now has battery powered air tools, including several air ratchets and impact wrenches , including a 1/2" impact wrench that has 1100 ft. lbs. breakaway.

2. Every Ingersoll Rand tool I found is now made in China. I wonder if their quality has lessened, like Craftsmen hand tools that are made in China?
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Battery powered air tools???
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Originally posted by HD6GTOM HD6GTOM wrote:

Doug, I owned a tire shop for 22+ years. There is only 1 brand of air wrench for everyday use.   Ingersoll Rand. In hundreds of hours of useage, they will out work and outlast anything else out there. I do not know if they make a gun like you need. I picked up one like you describe from one of the elcheapo places at flea market several years ago. I thought I needed it for a single job. After attempting to use it, I tossed it at the bench, missed the bench and it skid behind the bench. As far as I know it's still there. If I was going to use one frequently, I'd Google Ingersoll Rand and look for a good one.


Tom, today's IR tools ain't what they used to be! I think the impact wrenches are still good. They moved their production to China some years ago, the quality of the ball-bearings fell off a cliff at that point. We use their die-grinders at work, as well as the impacts. When a grinder comes in broken now we just scrap it, issue a new one. They seem like a really nice unit to look at and hold, the lack of carbon in the bearings is what kills them. For home use probably not a big deal. Have better luck with rebuilding air impacts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2020 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Battery powered air tools???

Ok, That was a senior moment. Or as my oncologist would say, "chemo brain".

How about battery powered impact wrench and ratchet ??????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2020 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by WF owner WF owner wrote:

Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Battery powered air tools???


Ok, That was a senior moment. Or as my oncologist would say, "chemo brain".

How about battery powered impact wrench and ratchet ??????


Hey, it's alright....I just didn't want to miss out on the newest craze!

Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2020 at 12:45pm
Back where I used to work, we had a supply store, manned by a guy named "Doc", who was, well, about the farthest thing from a Doc. He had some good ones. Like, when you drop a can of paint, you don't go freaking out trying to clean it up, you simply go grab a roller, screw it onto a long handle, and paint the floor.

Well, one time, he was telling me about the great deal he got at Odd Lots, and he painted the mailbox at his rental trailer. "Got me some of that high gloss flat black". Well, I guess it was at "odd" lots!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 12:53am
Mike I read your post today so I made a couple of phone calls. The folks I used to buy my air guns from still has USA made Ingersoll Rand, but very expensive. I forgot to ask him if he bought out that last of the USA made guns or are they still making the commercial units here In The states. He was busy. If I can remember I will call them and post back. I had to use my 1" air gun to remove the right rear tire/rim on the grandson s Dakota tonight. The 1/2" HF gun would not budge the nuts. Sure miss the good guns.
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Many years ago I stopped at my neighbors, he and his son had the sickle bar out of their combine and had it clamped to a couple saw horses sharping it. They were using a 4-1/2" side grinder and air tool, I don't remember what air tool, but if I remember right they had a 3hp air compressor, and it could not keep up with that tool, and that side grinder just kept going.  
A 3hp air compressor draws a lot more power than a 4-1/2" side grinder.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 8:36am
Tom, not sure if they still have a 'Made in USA' line or not. For home use it probably is a moot point. Most of us will never put on the kind of hours on any tool that our weld shop, (or the assembly area) does.

A few years back we had an 'Air tool class'. The instructor was from Ingersol-Rand. We grilled him about the Chinese thing. He himed and hawed and had no real explanation. Probably just boiled down to being more profitable.

For die grinders it's hard to beat a Dotco or Dynabraid.
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one of the problems with a 1/2 inch impact that is SUPPOSE to put out 1100 ft pounds of torque is that people connect them with a 1/4 inch hose they got for $10.00 that has a .170 inch hole in the coupling............. I got away from them small couplings that have  something like .280 inch hole in them.... the  pipe fitting crimped on the end of the hose is also a big restriction.. bore that out or get a bigger hose to feed the gun and you can get 4 TIMES as much air thru the gun.... THEN it might put out 1100 ft pounds !!
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 10:22am
No replacement for having air around a repair job to keep it clean. But for most other jobs doing a repair job electric tools will get the job done easier than air. And now with batteries no hose or cord to be tripping over.

A few years ago had a 1 1/2 axle in a disc I needed apart out in the field. A little 3500 watt generator and one inch electric impact and cord was a lot less to cart around than compressor to run a one inch air impact. Wink Never had to sit and wait for the compressor to catch back up.Big smile Just pull that trigger and buzz that nut off.
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 EXTRA, Extra,,,read all bout it,,
 I had been followin this thread cause it interests me and,,,,I got a lesson in humility just yesterday. My Son had given me a Milwaukee battery powered angle drill with the M18 Red  Lithium XC 4.0 battery. This sob is one powerful,,,sob,,!! It has the power torque settings on the barrel and my Son had told me to be careful when using the max torque settings as it was very powerful. Well,,,some sob broke into my shop and raised the torque to MAX and I was using it while workin on the ATV I just bought and when tightening some bolts on the front bumper,,,that sob rammed it home and promply spun backwards, and knocked me right under my chin and I dang near passed out,,!! I wobbled onto my chair and  tried to call 911 cause I thought I was gonna pass out. I was so woozie, my eyes would NOT focus for chit,,so I just sat there for bout 10 minutes before I staggered into the house,,and I mean "staggered"!!  Dang,,thats the worst feeling but after bout 15-20 minutes I got to where I could see, so went and layed down for a bit. After an hour I felt ok so I went back outside,,,,I found the drill bout 10 feet away on the ground.
I have no idea what kinda torque this sob makes but I gots lots of respect for the tool NOW,,,I've got a big welt on my chin and my whole jaw still hurts a lot,,,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2020 at 4:20pm

DJ, I had a similar experience one time, 'cept I didn't get whacked as hard. Dad had an old, and I mean old 1/2 drill, I don't know how much it weighed, but it was big and it was heavy, and was geared drive. It was broke, and I asked him about it. He said if I could fix it it was mine, but be very careful with it. I fixed it. was drilling on an I beam, trigger locked down, drill bit caught as it broke through, drill went backwards, bent my arm and wrist into a knot, 5/8 inch drill bit snapped, and that danged drill commenced to rolling across the yard, winding itself up in it's own extension cord. It would have been funny had I not been in so much pain. It took awhile, but it wadded itself up until the broken end of the bit cut into the cord, popped the breaker and the show was over. My wrist was an ugly black/purple for quite awhile, but I don't think it was broke
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LOLLOL,,,you know,Lou,,,it's a dang good thing that we can laugh at those times when we escaped harm by the closest things,,, I'm laughing thinkin bout that big old drill  eatin up the extension cord til it cut itself off,,,,No tellin how much hurt that broken bit that was now like a sharp knife woulda caused you in a split second,,,,!!!,,,Dang
 I used to help a friend of mine doing body work after my regular job and one day he was usin the BIG Black & Decker 7 1/2" grinder on some bondo and as always he was foolin around and before "quick could get ready" he lost control and that thing cut a gash across his thigh bout 1/2" deep and almost all the way around his thigh,,,!!  we had to call an ambulance as he was bleeding so bad!!  We was afraid to move him, he would start squirting so much blood. He got out of hospital  2 days later, and 60+ stiches wiser ,,,,he never messed around with that grinder,,,,Clap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2020 at 6:34pm
Well Joe, Lou, those are bad. But, but picture this:

A buddy of mine while I lived in Ohio was drilling while wearing cutoffs. The fringe caught on the chuck and before you know it had wound up once trapping the trigger on. That’s one of those times where chit happens fast yet time slows down. A guy does have a little bit to think as the drill worked its way north and he did realize to jump back which pulled the cord out of the wall. But I tell ya, the look on his face was PRICELESS!!!!
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 Yeah,,TBone,,,,and I'll bet the noises comin outa his mouth woulda been hilarious to listen to afterwards,,,,,LOLLOL
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Tom's reference to OLDER I/R tools is well-founded.  Ingersoll-Rand's SMALLISH compressors appear in steel mills, foundaries, powerplants, and factories... and without electric motors installed, weigh in around 65 TONS.  Ingersoll-Rand didn't used to make anything that could be rated in horsepower without having three places left of the decimal, and fractions were never used.  One of their SMALL competetors was Worthington, and I happen to have a fine example of one of their small ones... the compressor head weighs about 2200lbs, has a 4" Schedule 80 outlet pipe, and has a 2" pipe to cool it's water jacket...

But the point is, that the old stuff was clearly made with a philosophy of industrial service, everything you find now is 'consumer grade'... an entirely lesser category than what you'll find amidst the lots of old factory equipment, so skip the big-box environment and hunt the auction flyers.

I have three IR industrial rattleguns, a 1/2", a 3/4", and a 1" long-anvil gun.  The 3/4" gun will remove ANY lug nut, regardless of what direction you have it set-  it will spin them off, or rip them out, so choose wisely (I've done both, and intentionally).  The 1" will break off the shank of a 2" hitch ball.

NONE of my impact wrenches will work worth crap when connected to the 100ft 3/8 hose reel that has the tire-chuck through the wall of my wife's garage.

NONE of my impact wrenches, or die grinders, or cutoff disks will work worth a crap from my portable pancake air-nailer compressor... or even on a 20-gallon roll-around 120v compressor that says '5.0hp' or 150PSI or "Oil-less" on it.  If it was built with a plastic shroud over a direct-coupled piston, it is NOT up to the task of running serious tools.

Air tools are a perfect demonstration of  'weakest link' circumstance.  If you want big power at the nut or bolt, everything from the wrench, through the  plumbing, to the air reservoir, to the powerhead that charges it, must be in the game plan.

My main compressor is small.  It's a 300 gallon tank, charged by a 4hp single-phase 240v motor driving a 4-cylinder two-stage compressor head.  It is equipped with an automatic drain valve, has an intercooling stage between the low and high side cylinders, and an aftercooling stage past the unloader valve.  The compressor sump has an oil level sight glass and an electric heating probe to keep that oil from getting thick below 40F.  The unloader mechanism has a control contact to shut down the compressor once tank pressure hits 150, and kicks it on at 120.  The motor's run power is handled by a 70A contactor, and there's a 40-second delay timer on it's coil circuit so that, if power on my property is lost, when power returns, it will not try to start the compressor at the same time everything ELSE on the property (refrigerators, sump pumps, furnaces, etc) are all starting.  I have this compressor plumbed to all my other buildings, with fittings conveniently located in areas that I'd need air... but that plumbing won't carry the volume of a high demand tool... I have additional storage reservoirs plumbed in each building to provide extra support.

The best tool is ineffective without oil.  Oil not only lubricates the tool, it provides sealing for the air motor, be it a slap-piston hammer, or a turbine air-drill... that oil fills the tool's gaps like an O-ring.

There's been leaps-and-bounds of improvement in the portable electric and battery-electric tools.  I have 1/4" and 1/2" cordless impacts, and I use them all the time... but I certainly hate doing a big job, and having the #@!% battery go dead... but the one thing that is worse, is when it's over 75F, or below 40F outside, my !$#@% batteries, and the @#%$@# !@$#%! charger go on strike, because they have a very seriously enforced 'operating temperature range', which means the manufacturer has incorporated termistor sensors into the battery and charger, and if the range detected by those thermistors exceeds the engineer's programming of the operating processor, they simply will NOT work.  My Rigid drill, impact, and oscillating tool is an excellent example-  I cannot use them in the field when it is below 40F... I have to keep the tools, and the charger INSIDE the cab, carry them outside, use them for several minutes, and put them back in the truck.  If it is a hot day, or I'm using them substantially, they'll need to be placed inside the truck, with air conditioning on, in order to stay cool enough to work.  This means, that for any month other than april, may, october, or november, they're more useless than useful.

Which brings up an important point- with Electric tools, the more you use them, the hotter they get. The more you use an air tool, the COLDER it gets.  This is because pneumatic tools require expanding air... and to expand, a gas requires heat absorption.

So if it's really hot out, and you NEED to get a job done, and a big  air supply and hose isn't a problem, go big.

Compared to an air tool, the cordless may be handy, but realize, that the power source for the air tool is a 5+ hp motor and a really, really big tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2020 at 8:43am
Great post Dave. I recently put a 1/2" line on my 30 gallon 220 volt roll around to get enough air to a 3/4" impact. Have not had occasion to use it yet but sure it will work. I have a 50 gallon tank from a dead compressor I would plum in for a surge tank if I can figure out where.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2020 at 10:25am
Originally posted by DaveKamp DaveKamp wrote:

Tom's reference to OLDER I/R tools is well-founded.  Ingersoll-Rand's SMALLISH compressors appear in steel mills, foundaries, powerplants, and factories... and without electric motors installed, weigh in around 65 TONS.  Ingersoll-Rand didn't used to make anything that could be rated in horsepower without having three places left of the decimal, and fractions were never used.  One of their SMALL competetors was Worthington, and I happen to have a fine example of one of their small ones... the compressor head weighs about 2200lbs, has a 4" Schedule 80 outlet pipe, and has a 2" pipe to cool it's water jacket...

But the point is, that the old stuff was clearly made with a philosophy of industrial service, everything you find now is 'consumer grade'... an entirely lesser category than what you'll find amidst the lots of old factory equipment, so skip the big-box environment and hunt the auction flyers.

I have three IR industrial rattleguns, a 1/2", a 3/4", and a 1" long-anvil gun.  The 3/4" gun will remove ANY lug nut, regardless of what direction you have it set-  it will spin them off, or rip them out, so choose wisely (I've done both, and intentionally).  The 1" will break off the shank of a 2" hitch ball.

NONE of my impact wrenches will work worth crap when connected to the 100ft 3/8 hose reel that has the tire-chuck through the wall of my wife's garage.

NONE of my impact wrenches, or die grinders, or cutoff disks will work worth a crap from my portable pancake air-nailer compressor... or even on a 20-gallon roll-around 120v compressor that says '5.0hp' or 150PSI or "Oil-less" on it.  If it was built with a plastic shroud over a direct-coupled piston, it is NOT up to the task of running serious tools.

Air tools are a perfect demonstration of  'weakest link' circumstance.  If you want big power at the nut or bolt, everything from the wrench, through the  plumbing, to the air reservoir, to the powerhead that charges it, must be in the game plan.

My main compressor is small.  It's a 300 gallon tank, charged by a 4hp single-phase 240v motor driving a 4-cylinder two-stage compressor head.  It is equipped with an automatic drain valve, has an intercooling stage between the low and high side cylinders, and an aftercooling stage past the unloader valve.  The compressor sump has an oil level sight glass and an electric heating probe to keep that oil from getting thick below 40F.  The unloader mechanism has a control contact to shut down the compressor once tank pressure hits 150, and kicks it on at 120.  The motor's run power is handled by a 70A contactor, and there's a 40-second delay timer on it's coil circuit so that, if power on my property is lost, when power returns, it will not try to start the compressor at the same time everything ELSE on the property (refrigerators, sump pumps, furnaces, etc) are all starting.  I have this compressor plumbed to all my other buildings, with fittings conveniently located in areas that I'd need air... but that plumbing won't carry the volume of a high demand tool... I have additional storage reservoirs plumbed in each building to provide extra support.

The best tool is ineffective without oil.  Oil not only lubricates the tool, it provides sealing for the air motor, be it a slap-piston hammer, or a turbine air-drill... that oil fills the tool's gaps like an O-ring.

There's been leaps-and-bounds of improvement in the portable electric and battery-electric tools.  I have 1/4" and 1/2" cordless impacts, and I use them all the time... but I certainly hate doing a big job, and having the #@!% battery go dead... but the one thing that is worse, is when it's over 75F, or below 40F outside, my !$#@% batteries, and the @#%$@# !@$#%! charger go on strike, because they have a very seriously enforced 'operating temperature range', which means the manufacturer has incorporated termistor sensors into the battery and charger, and if the range detected by those thermistors exceeds the engineer's programming of the operating processor, they simply will NOT work.  My Rigid drill, impact, and oscillating tool is an excellent example-  I cannot use them in the field when it is below 40F... I have to keep the tools, and the charger INSIDE the cab, carry them outside, use them for several minutes, and put them back in the truck.  If it is a hot day, or I'm using them substantially, they'll need to be placed inside the truck, with air conditioning on, in order to stay cool enough to work.  This means, that for any month other than april, may, october, or november, they're more useless than useful.

Which brings up an important point- with Electric tools, the more you use them, the hotter they get. The more you use an air tool, the COLDER it gets.  This is because pneumatic tools require expanding air... and to expand, a gas requires heat absorption.

So if it's really hot out, and you NEED to get a job done, and a big  air supply and hose isn't a problem, go big.

Compared to an air tool, the cordless may be handy, but realize, that the power source for the air tool is a 5+ hp motor and a really, really big tank.

That's all great, but most of us can't afford and/or don't need all that air equipment. Personally, trying to fit a 300 gallon tank in my garage, would mean something else has to go. My compressor has an 80 gallon tank,  that I oftern wish was smaller.

Most of us are either part-time mechanics or farmers that are working on their own stuff. I guess that's the biggest appeal of the battery operated tools. We can very easily work on something out in the field, in the garage or any other place. 

Yes, there are limitations with electric tools, but like I said, most of us don't use them full time, so we have to live with the limitations.

I guess it's like everything else. Some people can justify paying big $$$ for Snap-On tools. I get by with my (old) Craftsmen tools that were made in the USA. There really is no "right" tool for everyone.
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