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Adding Hydraulics/Loader to B

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mrjohnas View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Location: NW WI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrjohnas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Adding Hydraulics/Loader to B
    Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 2:10pm
Hi Everyone,

Total new guy here. I recently acquired my Dad's 1947 B that he restored a little while ago and I'm interested in adding hydraulics and a loader to it to do some light yard work.

I've done some searching and haven't seen a lot of information out there on what loaders are best suited for the B. Any information that might point me in the right direction of what to look for would be greatly appreciated. I'd prefer to have a power tilt rather than trip bucket. I do have welding and metal fab tools and abilities.

Regarding hydraulics - I've seen front-mounted pumps running off the fan belt as well as the rear-mounted pumps that run off the PTO. Is there an advantage or disadvantage to using either with a loader? Not sure of the capacity of the PTO-driven unit.

Thanks so much in advance for any direction or advice you guys can share with a rookie on what to look for and where to look for it.

Take care,

John
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KMAG View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 May 2020
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KMAG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 2:33pm
I can't answer your questions, but I have a suggestion. See if someone will let you try theirs before adding a loader to your B.

I met a guy who took off his loader from a B b/c it made it impossible for him to get on/off and use it in tight spots w/o power steering.

Edited by KMAG - 14 Aug 2020 at 2:34pm
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wbecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wbecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 2:38pm
There was a loader made for the B and C. It was made by Henderson, I'm sure it may be hard to find. I actually gave one away years ago.
If you do find one or fabricate one keep in mind they have been known to brake the engine or torque tube where they bolt together if over loaded, that is what had happened to the B with loader I bought for parts.
A pto driven pump is a pia to use as it does not work when you push the clutch in.
A front mount works as long as the engine is running.
Good Luck.
Bill B
Allis B, IB, Low B, G, D10, JD M, 8KCAB, C152
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wbecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wbecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 2:41pm
One more thing, if you do put a loader on the B you will tear up your steering gear box, they are a weak point on the B even without a loader.
Bill B
Allis B, IB, Low B, G, D10, JD M, 8KCAB, C152
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TomC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 2:45pm
I'll probably get an earful but I don't think I'd put a loader on a B, they are to light, to hard to steer & two wheel drive. I personally think you'd be way ahead to look around & find a smaller 4x4 diesel with a loader on it or one that a loader can be put on. That's the way I did it, I use my CA for spraying,the wagon & rake, everything else I use my yanmar 2020D with a loader on it. I don't know where your at but just do some checking , I'm thinking you'll be way better off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 4:52pm
heck I scrapped TWO nice loaders from my D-14s cause they were a bear to steer... I can't fathom the stress of a 'full power' loader on an itty bitty B !  Don't know if anyone made power steering for a B, it's a frail system overall I believe. You'll need a front ( engine) driven pump to get 100% power all the time. Anything 'out the back' will stop running when you push in the clutch.
Maybe, maybe an 'industial B' makes an OK loader ?? the B lovers will KNOW, there's 100s of years of knowledge on this forum, so heed what they say.
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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wbecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wbecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 7:03pm
No, AC did not make a loader for the IB, but some have been fabbed, same problem, steering gear, and needs an engine driven pump, and 2 wheel driive not too useful with a loader.
Allis B, IB, Low B, G, D10, JD M, 8KCAB, C152
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrjohnas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 7:19pm
Thanks for the great information everyone. I really appreciate the feedback. Everything you've said makes sense. Sounds like I really need to consider what kind of work I want to do with it and how much I want to sink into this little guy to do it. Maybe I'll stick to the parade circuit. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 9:32pm
mrjohnas,  You have received some outstanding information.  In fact, when we sold the B's- we sold them for the life of the unit 37 - 57 - I cannot remember putting a loader on them.  The B is a "neat" tractor - my favorite - but they are not an efficient loader tractor. My son purchased a  small John Deere - 1025 - a few years ago. I remember telling him to get a loader included in the financing.  Now he wishes he had.  The 1025 along with other similar tractors are made for a small loader.   Much as I LOVE the B it is not
Take good care of my favorite
Good Luck!
Bill Long

ps:  If you do get a loader please be VERY CAREFUL.  I have lost too many friends to fatal loader accidents.  They seem to forget that the center of gravity goes up with the loader.


Edited by Bill Long - 14 Aug 2020 at 9:36pm
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mrjohnas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrjohnas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 10:37pm
Thank you Bill. It's great to get good information and solid advice from knowledgeable people. I'm going to consider other options for my loader tasks.

Take care,

John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 4:57pm
Jonas-

Being an owner of TWO B's, several WDs, WCs, and  D17... and a Kubota BX, and a homemade loader based on the 'wide frame' IH Cub Cadet, I'll make the following recommendations:

The B is a wonderful little chore tractor, but NOT for a loader... exactly for the reasons above.

The WC, WD, and WD45 would be better, the D17 is best... but...

If you want a serious tool, you'll want the following:

Full hydraulic in both directions (Meaning, no 'trip bucket', and no 'single acting' cylinders... you want to be able to curl the bucket to any angle, and to be able to apply downforce, as well as lift).

Full 'live' hydraulics... meaning... if the engine is running, you've got hydraulic power that is NOT interrupted by shifting and clutching

Hydrostatic drive, from a foot treadle.  Operating a loader means constant direction changes... and gear slinging and clutching take up a foot, and a hand, and lots of energy and repetetive motion.  A foot treadle that controls speed and direction RULES!

Full hydraulic power steering, with the steering ram attached to the AXLE, not the frame, and no funky linkages between the frame and a steering knuckle.  When the steering cylinders act directly on the knuckles, slop between the frame and axle pivot, and any other linkages, does not exist, so steering is MUCH more responsive.

Lots of rearend ballast.  Figure out how much you'll need, and add more, and leave capacity for more.

Driven front axle.  ONLY engage it when you're in DIRE straits, because you would otherwise find yourself doing things that HIDE from you the warning signs of impending danger... like driving around with too heavy a load, way up high.

NO DIFFERENTIAL LOCK.  Get independant right-left brakes INSTEAD.  Diff lock, particularly with lots of counterweight, puts the differential under massive stress when you're making a turn... and the mechanisms (when mechanical) will frequently stay stuck in 'lock'.  In the case of the BX-series, the locking pins (hardened steel) fracture, and send chunks into the bottom of the transaxle, which are then shoved through the aluminum casting, and joined on the ground, with all your hydrostatic fluid.    In contrast, separate right-left brakes will allow you to 'manage' wheelslip AND improve steering, without putting expensive hard-parts at risk.

A weight box that hangs on the 3 point, has lots of weight in the bottom, and a covered tray for tools in the top, and hooks on the sides for chains.  You'll need long and short chains.

ROPS, with forward and rear-facing LED floodlights.  A removable canopy, and removable clear curtains that hang down to waist level, is great in winter wind...

Tire chains, that easily attach even with wheel weights in place.  Yes, you'll have wheel weights.  Probably Beet Juice in the tires, too.  Did I mention weight?

Foam fill the front tires.  You don't have to initially, but eventually, you'll want to.  Flat steer tires on a loader, particularly in the winter, or in mud... really suck...

Don't drill or torch holes in the bucket, but DO weld three chain-hooks to the top edge stiffening-brace... one on each end, and one on the middle.  If you don't know why, you'll learn fast!  ;-)

If you get one that is small enough to be trailerable, get a dump trailer big enough to drive it in, and curl the bucket around the front (to hold it in place), and still close and lock the gate.  Make sure the trailer, and tow vehicle have capacity to handle it.

Once you have a good utility tractor with loader, and a dump trailer and truck, you will be able to accomplish things you couldn't DREAM of, and you'll be able to do it FAST...  and you won't regret it for a minute!!!Wink
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hillmann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 8:04pm
I think everyone else is right about a B not being a good choice as a loader tractor but depending on what you need it to do it could still do the job quite well.  Right now I am using my B to load logs onto a saw mill.

I have an A frame hanging out the back with a hand crank winch that I have to get off the tractor to operate in order to raise the logs.  Due to the angle I  have the A frame in order to lift the logs to the height I need the logs are about 6 feet behind the center of the axle.  Due to that much leverage that far away I can only lift about 300 pounds before the front wheels don't want to stay on the ground.  Even with all that hassle it is still much easier to load the logs with the tractor than to do it by  hand.  Imagine how much easier it would be to have a hydraulic loader to do the work.

I am intending to put 3 point on the back and either a homemade or cut down from a larger loader on the front.  I intend to drive a for power steering pump from a Triton V8 of the fan belt for the hydraulic pump  it only puts out 2.4 gpm and 1300 psi but I have several on hand and they have a remote tank that makes them good for this use.   If my math is correct it will take about 20 seconds to go from the ground to all the way up. As long as I am well aware of the weakness of the front axle and steering it will be better than no loader at all.
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