AC D-19 turbo diesel versus JD 4010 diesel

Wow.  I must be low on coffee....I can't believe some of the things I'm reading!!! Hahaha

Edited by Tbone95 - 11 Dec 2017 at 7:39am

IF YOU GET THOSE J-Ds ON AN INCLINE IN PARK HAVE FUN TRYING TO PULL IT OUT. IF YOU FINAGILE ENOUGH AND GET IT IN REVERSE IT UNLOCKS. I ALWAYS CALLED THAT SYSTEM WONDER SHIFT !

45 turboa- wrote: IF YOU GET THOSE J-Ds ON AN INCLINE IN PARK HAVE FUN TRYING TO PULL IT OUT. IF YOU FINAGILE ENOUGH AND GET IT IN REVERSE IT UNLOCKS. I ALWAYS CALLED THAT SYSTEM WONDER SHIFT !

i have never been on a d19 but i think it could only be compared to a4010 or a early 4020,   because the late 4020 is a very differant tractor the late one is 10x the tractor  this post caught my eye because i just stareted on an inframe on a late 4020 this guy has an eary one also

I'm just imagining Dr. Allis sitting back and laughing at all of you after reading the mess he started! LOL

4010/4020 didn't have any "park" issues. That was quad-range 4430's and the like. History is pretty clear sometimes. Deere replaced the long obsolete two-banger series with a 7 year adventure of developing the 3010/4010 tractors. These new tractors forced everyone else to scramble and come up with something new too. Look at the MF 1100 tractor: closed center hydraulic pump driven off of the crankshaft, hydrostatic power steering, planetary final drives and wet brakes, etc, etc. The MF1100 was clearly a 4010/20 wannabe. IH had to release the 706/806 in 1963.  A-C finally came with the mighty One-Ninety in mid/late 1964 just AFTER Deere released the 4020 !! The One-Ninety set some new highs in the operator comfort zone that took Deere another decade to match. Large, flat, high deck platform. Suspended clutch and brake pedals. Console control !! (which soon became an industry standard for others). Tilt steering wheel. sloping tapered hood design. 48 gallon rear mount fuel tank. To this day, operating a 190/200 tractor is still about as good as it gets for the operator. BUT, the lack of a real independent PTO haunted this tractor when trying to convert a brand X customer over to A-C. Also, the fact that 77 HP never matched a 4010's 84 HP and now the 4020's 94 HP didn't help either. So, some genius engineer (or salesman) decided to install a turbo-charger on the One-Ninety XT to compete with the 4020, which it did, until the transmission or ring and pinion ate their pigs. I started this post earlier this morning, so it is a little out of synch........

Tbone95 wrote: Lonn wrote: Tbone95 wrote: 45 turboa- wrote: IF YOU GET THOSE J-Ds ON AN INCLINE IN PARK HAVE FUN TRYING TO PULL IT OUT. IF YOU FINAGILE ENOUGH AND GET IT IN REVERSE IT UNLOCKS. I ALWAYS CALLED THAT SYSTEM WONDER SHIFT !   Which JD's?  Have a 2640 that's spring loaded to go into park, if on an incline, and doesn't go in right away, let it roll and it slips right in.  No issue whatsoever getting it out.  That one is actually the best park system I've ever operated.  Had a 1520.  That was pretty stiff in park, but if you pulled it out of first first, it wasn't that bad.  No worse than the Allis binding up on an incline, just little different problem, little different way to deal with it.  Those were both TSS transmissions.  Maybe the synchro range was worse.  Never owned one of those, but have operated one.  Did you pay attention to which tractors were being talked about? I never saw 2640 in the title post. BTW a 2640 has a host of other problems that put that series of tractors in the category of worst owned among Deere owners. Wow, take it easy.  Yes, I paid attention, just sort of asking for clarification.  A lot has been talked about since the title post.  Was a 190 XT in the title post?  How about a MF 135?  Did you jump on that guy?   BTW, we have owned and used hard our 2640 for over 30 years, and it's really never given us any trouble.  There's wear and tear and we do our maintenance.  I guess I'm "lucky".

I didn't read them all but for some reason I'm drawn to you. BTW I think you took my tone a lot harsher than I figured. Almost every model tractor built by anyone gets a bad review from somebody but if you search a "2640 worst tractor" there will be more hits on that model than usual. Don't ask me what the problems are, I don't remember all what I read. A friend of mine had a 26 or 2840 and he did have a lot of nickel and dime issues. Now he has a New Holland.

Every brand of tractor has their hero’s and zeros. I think we are comparing one of each. What always strikes me as funny is that you never hear a bad thing about a D17 but just turn the corner and you find someone who doesn’t like a D19.   And they’re not that different. The other thing I find funny as that the duds are now the most collectible. D19 turbo diesel, WD45 Diesel. Both have a reputation of having engine problems. Just thinking out loud.

I always said a series 4 D-17 gas was my "4020".  Every part of the tractor was built just rugged enough to last a long time without any problems. Every S4 gas I ever overhauled (and there were many) never needed the crankshaft reground. That was a far cry from the first D-17's that had some crank/oil pressure issues. My Dad's S4 to this day has never had anything done to the transmission, differential or anything in the torque housing except hand clutch ramps and rollers one time. Tractor has 10,000+ hrs on it and the diamonds on the clutch and brake pedals are pretty much smooooth.....

Pre 1964 there were several tractors ahead of AC. Basically any tractor with a GOOD diesel engine,Good LIVE hydraulics and a 3 Pt. Hitch.

Dang was that the. Cat JD relationship? Always heard of something,

DrAllis wrote: 4010/4020 didn't have any "park" issues. That was quad-range 4430's and the like. History is pretty clear sometimes. Deere replaced the long obsolete two-banger series with a 7 year adventure of developing the 3010/4010 tractors. These new tractors forced everyone else to scramble and come up with something new too. Look at the MF 1100 tractor: closed center hydraulic pump driven off of the crankshaft, hydrostatic power steering, planetary final drives and wet brakes, etc, etc. The MF1100 was clearly a 4010/20 wannabe. IH had to release the 706/806 in 1963.  A-C finally came with the mighty One-Ninety in mid/late 1964 just AFTER Deere released the 4020 !! The One-Ninety set some new highs in the operator comfort zone that took Deere another decade to match. Large, flat, high deck platform. Suspended clutch and brake pedals. Console control !! (which soon became an industry standard for others). Tilt steering wheel. sloping tapered hood design. 48 gallon rear mount fuel tank. To this day, operating a 190/200 tractor is still about as good as it gets for the operator. BUT, the lack of a real independent PTO haunted this tractor when trying to convert a brand X customer over to A-C. Also, the fact that 77 HP never matched a 4010's 84 HP and now the 4020's 94 HP didn't help either. So, some genius engineer (or salesman) decided to install a turbo-charger on the One-Ninety XT to compete with the 4020, which it did, until the transmission or ring and pinion ate their pigs. I started this post earlier this morning, so it is a little out of synch........

Thanks DrAllis for sharing that era's highlights. I was a kid during the late 1960s & remember seeing all those models in our farm community. I never ran a MF1100, but put some hours on IH 706 & 806s, AC 190xt diesel, & JD4020 diesels. One farm had the bigger Ford 7000,9000- can't remember which?? Mostly though, the local elevator wagon lines during harvest were outnumbered with many older AC WDs & WD45s pulling loaded flare box wagons (with feed sacks covering inside of tailgates) on David Bradley gears. Great memories!

wekracer,you stated that a D-17/D-19 were "NOT THAT DIFFERENT". We ran a series II D 17 for years and Dad (he admits it) FOOLISHLY traded it on a D-19. IMO, the Only thing "not that different" Was the PERSIAN #2 paint. Perhaps the series III '17 was a closer match??

i totaly agree with Dr. Allis ,   what should have happened   

FREEDGUY wrote: wekracer,you stated that a D-17/D-19 were "NOT THAT DIFFERENT". We ran a series II D 17 for years and Dad (he admits it) FOOLISHLY traded it on a D-19. IMO, the Only thing "not that different" Was the PERSIAN #2 paint. Perhaps the series III '17 was a closer match??

To be honest I don’t think I have ever run a D19. We have 3 series 4 D17s and I must agree with doc regarding their ruggedness. I’ve really not had much experience with pre s4 17s either. We did have a D15 II so I’m familiar with the hydraulic drawbacks. But from what I’ve seen a 19 is just a pre series 4 D17 with six cylinder engine and maybe different final drives. The hydraulics were a big drawback which is why dad said he never wanted one.   Heck. The only difference between a 180 and s4 17 is the 301, power director and sheet metal. From what I’ve heard all the D series gas tractors were reliable. All the diesels has bad reputations. But I admit I don’t have much experience with some of them. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Edited by wekracer - 12 Dec 2017 at 7:54pm