7GB wont start after replacing fuel filters

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   Hello again gents, Well had to play with the toy this weekend and broke it. The fact is the guy i bought it from hadn't changed any of the filters in a number of years, so after getting the engine oil and filters changed I moved on to the fuel filters. So I turned off the the tank valve and unscrewed the old filters, WOW were they BAD. Kinda like a muddy black oozy looking stuff filled both filters, surprised it ran before I started playing with it ... Anyway cleaned up the filter housing, installed the new wix filters, with new o-rings. opened the brass plugs above each  filter, opened the tank valve and let it run until no air. HOWEVER I did not open the bleed valve in the exit line above the filters, dumb. So I proceed to crank it until the batteries nearly died. No joy. After I discover the bleed valve and open it, nothing. Hmmmm. So I unscrew it from the housing and sure enough the bleed hole is plugged. I clean it up, burp more air and try it again, still no joy. I am guessing that air was pushed down to the Roosa Master (its lower in the engine bay than the top of the filters) and now it wont do its injection thing.

Roosa Master Pump (right side of engine)

Filter rack showing two brass plugs and line bleeder. (left side of engine)

My question is what do I do now? I dont have a manual for the pump so I an not sure how to bleed this thing, and do you think I also need to open the injector lines? Any help appreciated. Steve

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schreps Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Aug 2010 Location: 22407 Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote schreps Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 7GB wont start after replacing fuel filters Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 9:40pm
	Hello again gents, Well had to play with the toy this weekend and broke it. The fact is the guy i bought it from hadn't changed any of the filters in a number of years, so after getting the engine oil and filters changed I moved on to the fuel filters. So I turned off the the tank valve and unscrewed the old filters, WOW were they BAD. Kinda like a muddy black oozy looking stuff filled both filters, surprised it ran before I started playing with it ... Anyway cleaned up the filter housing, installed the new wix filters, with new o-rings. opened the brass plugs above each filter, opened the tank valve and let it run until no air. HOWEVER I did not open the bleed valve in the exit line above the filters, dumb. So I proceed to crank it until the batteries nearly died. No joy. After I discover the bleed valve and open it, nothing. Hmmmm. So I unscrew it from the housing and sure enough the bleed hole is plugged. I clean it up, burp more air and try it again, still no joy. I am guessing that air was pushed down to the Roosa Master (its lower in the engine bay than the top of the filters) and now it wont do its injection thing. Roosa Master Pump (right side of engine) Filter rack showing two brass plugs and line bleeder. (left side of engine) My question is what do I do now? I dont have a manual for the pump so I an not sure how to bleed this thing, and do you think I also need to open the injector lines? Any help appreciated. Steve

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farmtoybuilder Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Dresden,Ohio Points: 1457	Post Options Post Reply Quote farmtoybuilder Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Aug 2010 at 9:06pm
	Yes loosen the injector lines and check fuel delivery to pump. I believe that's a bleeder by the tag on injection pump? If you have fuel to pump and loosen all the lines and crank it over, When it gets fuel to injectors start closing the lines on them and it should start. They are a pain!
	5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them.

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41914	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Aug 2010 at 9:13pm
	Crack the lines and spin it over , make sure you do not have fuel shut off lever in wrong position and shutting off pump. A short puff of either in intake to help it run will also sometimes clear it out. Not a big spray but short shot as it is turning , then another shot to keep it running until it clears up.
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

injpumpEd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 5075	Post Options Post Reply Quote injpumpEd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 2010 at 2:42pm
	no bleeders on pump by tag. usually not that hard to bleed a roosa, as long as it is getting fuel, and you can crank it fast enough. Ether in small amounts is very helpful.
	210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!

ac45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Points: 395	Post Options Post Reply Quote ac45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Sep 2010 at 2:01pm
	Crack line at inlet of injection pump open, and pressurize fuel tank with compressed air intill it come out of cracked line, then you know the filters are full. and you are good up to the pump.

schreps Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Aug 2010 Location: 22407 Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote schreps Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 5:50pm
	Got side tracked by my Dad, couple days in the hospital but he's ok. So from looking at the posts it seems like I should: 1) pressurize the fuel tank (assume this might not take more than 1 psi) then open the line at the pump to bleed any air in the filters and line. 2) close the line then depressurize the tank. 3) crack the injector lines (at each injector) and crank it until all are showing fuel. But how much do I open the lines (half turn, full turn, until loose?) and how do I know when all the air is gone? 4) tighten the injector lines 5) crank it, using some ether, until it starts. Does this sound about right? Thanks.

schreps Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Aug 2010 Location: 22407 Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote schreps Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2010 at 5:50am
	Have pressurized the tank and have fuel at the pump but I am not getting fuel to the injectors. I guess the IP is not primed. Ed mentioned that there is no bleed on this pump ? The pump model number is Roosa Master DCGFC 631-4GR

schreps Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Aug 2010 Location: 22407 Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote schreps Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Sep 2010 at 8:28pm
	Found some blockage in the inlet strainer (old thread tape) on the pump but the problem was the metering valve control arm that is pushed/pulled by the governor was stuck in the closed position. Apparently just by luck the arm/valve stuck when I shut it down to change the fuel filters, thus sending me on a wild goose chase after a priming problem. To quote George Miller, "if a roosa pump has fuel, it primes!" Will update again when I get the pump back together and fired up. Thanks to all who pitched in!

schreps Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Aug 2010 Location: 22407 Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote schreps Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2010 at 7:09am
	She runs !!! Used 2+2 carb cleaner on the metering valve mechanism and now moves very well. After installing new air and fuel filters this thing can still take over a minute of cranking at temps above 70F (cold engine). There are no glow plugs. Is this normal or should I check the compression? Does restart easy after warm. I am very concerned about starting it in cold weather... Thanks to all who helped.

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41914	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2010 at 9:16am
	Thats why they have starting fluid in a can. Get use to having a can with you when you plan on working. Lot easier on machine starter , to give it a small shot to get it going . Just a puff while turning it over will do it.
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

schreps Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Aug 2010 Location: 22407 Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote schreps Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2010 at 6:31pm
	I sometimes give it a wiff of WD40. I have read several places that it doesn't fire as quickly as ether and is a lower risk of damaging the top ring. I was thinking of rigging up some type of intake air heater using a heat gun, any body tried this? This thing will definitely need a block heater in the winter.

schreps Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Aug 2010 Location: 22407 Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote schreps Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Sep 2010 at 3:35pm
	Ok something else I recently discovered, this engine is a D3500/turbo and apparently has a relatively low static compression ratio (14:1). The manual that I recently got indicates this engine needs diesel fuel with a cetane number of 50 to 60. Since the higher the cetane number the lower the temperature for fuel ignition it stands to reason that some part of my hard starting is due to the low compression and therefore lower compression temperature, and the fact that the off road fuel that is in it is less than 42 cetane. So I dumped some Power Service Cetane+ into it (may have raised the cetane by 6) and now it starts much easier; on average 15 second crank from cold. After I use this tank of fuel I am going to fill it with 50 cetane and add the Cetane+ and see what happens. I suspect that this machine will never start properly on the cheap off road diesel thats available in my area. Exhaust also seems to be much cleaner.

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41914	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Sep 2010 at 8:15pm
	I stopped using off road fuel as when used as part of business , all fuel is deductable on taxes. When using the off road I had audits done of what i was using it in , do I own any diesel on road viehicles, and had State inspectors sticking tanks looking for died fuel. Easy to just not have it arouund. They make a either injector in a cylinder like a propane cylinder with a electric push button unit to dispense it , that would be a alternative. The my FD 5 will start at -10F with no starting aids or being plugged in.
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."