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7010 adding returns for corn planter |
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wisconsin_cowman ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 May 2016 Location: WI Points: 12 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 11 May 2016 at 10:22pm |
New to the forum and have a question that hoping I can find some help. Got a customer that just converted his JD 7000 planter to Precision Planting outfit on it. To make a long story short the hydraulic oil is getting to hot and not cooling. Co-op who is a dealer and did all the work said to turn down the flow of the remote for planter motor to 10 GPM. Ran the planter for 1/2 an hour and oil temperature was 220 degrees at planter motor. They have the planter motor plugged into number one remote with a small zero return line from planter motor back to rear end of tractor. They removed one of the sight glasses and shoved a fitting in the sight glass port and there using that has what I call zero return for motor. Pressure line and return line are about the same temperature so I now the oil isn't getting cooled. Zero return line is a little cooler only 15 degrees cooler. So I removed the motor return line from remote coupler and let the tractor cool off and took the hose and stuck into the filler neck. Ran tractor again for 1/2 an hour and oil temperature was better 190 degrees for planter motor. Now the question is there has to be a better way to dump the motor return oil so it’s sent through hydraulic oil cooler and then back to sump. Instead of going through the couplers and control valve creating back pressure and not cooling. Also looking at installing a better zero return line back into sump. Anybody have ideas? I think if there was way to add a power beyond valve to tractor it may be better. This is the Co-op saying oil temperature gets hot to fast. I would like to see the hydraulic oil temperature around that 170 to 180 degrees. Tractor is a power shift.
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SHAMELESS ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: EAST NE Points: 29486 |
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under the seat in the cab is a flow control lever, use that!
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wisconsin_cowman ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 May 2016 Location: WI Points: 12 |
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That's what I used to turn the flow down to 10 GPM for the remote.
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Return should be back through coupler MACK
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21537 |
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The planter needs to be set-up for a closed-center hydraulic system, not an open-center system. You cannot tie your hyd lever into position with a piece of wire or a bungee cord !!! This will create extra heat. Make your detents so it can't kick-out.
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darrel in ND ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8692 |
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Wisconsin_cowman, I hear you loud and clear as to what you are trying to do. When I worked at an implement dealership in the late 80's and through the 90's, we always plumbed in low pressure returns for the hydraulic blower drives on air seeders when we hooked them up to case IH and versatile tractors. And I don't mean just the case drain line, although that got plumbed in as well. But the case IH and versatile tractors had specific instructions on the return lines. The pressure line got plugged into one of the tractor couplers normally, but the return line went through all 3/4 inch lines, and then we added on a 3/4 inch quick coupler right at the rear of the tractor, and then from there, the oil could by pass the valve stack, and went to a port on one of the steel lines on the tractor, where we removed a cap and hooked the hose from the big coupler to. So, basically, the return oil had a lot less back pressure due to going through a 3/4 inch coupler instead of a half inch one, and then by being able to by pass the valve stack. All this was done per tractor manufacturers specs. But, I don't know if this is possible to do on the allis tractors or not. The hydraulic systems are of the same design (pfc) so I would think there should be a way to do it, but as of yet, it seems un do able. Darrel
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wisconsin_cowman ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 May 2016 Location: WI Points: 12 |
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Not using a rope or bungee cord to hold lever. Detent is doing that job. Never give it a thought that planter is set up for open center system no closed.
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wisconsin_cowman ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 May 2016 Location: WI Points: 12 |
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Just found out that planter set only works on closed center systems only.
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wayneIA ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Oct 2009 Location: Waverly, IA Points: 268 |
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I have a precision system on my planter that I pull with my 7050, the hydraulic drive should only take 3-4 GPM to run it at maximum speed. I use the test port on the PTO valve for my oil supply to the drive motor, and the return which MUST be 0 PSI like you mentioned is returned directly to the sump. The one remote I tied back with a bungee cord and that drives the fan for the positive pressure on my white planter, and the other remote is used to run the markers (3 point mounted planter). Sounds almost like something else is wrong with the plumbing to create that much heat. The only time I've seen a system heat like that is when I had used the COOP's nitrogen applicator and they had put a hydraulic driven pump on the applicator to inject the fertilizer. There was a small orifice to regulate the pump speed by restricting the flow. This worked just fine for everyone else since most people around me had tractors with closed center hydraulics, but my 190 XT doesn't, so I had to monitor the oil temperature and stop to let it cool every so often. Is the other remote being used for anything to help circulate oil to the cooler? On the closed center system, adjusting the output flow wouldn't make any difference on the oil temperature since the drive motor on the planter is a closed center valve that only allows the needed amount of oil through the motor. The biggest issue on the remote valve flow is to have enough flow to properly supply the drive motor.
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wisconsin_cowman ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 May 2016 Location: WI Points: 12 |
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The remote that I turned down to 10 GPM is running the blower motor. The other remote is for raise and lowering planter. Tractor only has two remotes. No mark arms are used because he has guidance on tractor.
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Mike NEIN ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Jan 2010 Location: Rome City, IN Points: 405 |
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What about finding an old Cyclo planter and using the pto pump? That's what we put on our air seeder.
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Joe(TX) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Weatherford. TX Points: 1682 |
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The 7010 has a closed center hydraulic system.
I think the problem is with the planter rather than with the tractor. 10gpm should not be a problem. It also could be a problem with your disconnects. Are they the ball type or poppet type on the planter? |
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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wisconsin_cowman ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 May 2016 Location: WI Points: 12 |
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Planter has ball type couplers. I think I have the problem solved with the heat did some testing and just need to plumb it on the tractor. Been working on getting the tires and front axle moved in for 30" rows which hasn't been easy, but got it done to today.
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wisconsin_cowman ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 May 2016 Location: WI Points: 12 |
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Got the set up done today and happy with the hydraulic oil temperature. The set-up as follow. Using remote number one using only one coupler as the supply (pressure) to vacuum motor. Next I drilled and tapped a 1/2" NPT hole into the top three point housing in line with the fill tube added a coupler. This is the motor return. I left the motor zero return in the sight glass port were they had it. Not to crazy on it but tractor and planter have to get into field. Vacuum motor stays around the 165 degrees. At least the zero return doesn't get hotter then a pistol can at lease hold your hand on hose. Took some pictures but won't let me up-load them.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 12029 |
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Did you put a ball type coupler in that housing? If it's working satisfactorily, fine. But a flat face coupler would provide freer flow. Good on getting it working.
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wisconsin_cowman ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 May 2016 Location: WI Points: 12 |
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No I used a 1/2" body flat face coupler for return.
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