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Allis14 
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Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Location: Indiana
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 Topic: 4w305
Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 5:34pm |
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We recently bought a 4w305 and we think it may have engine damage. I know finding parts is hard. We're thinking of swapping in an 855. Does anyone have any insight into this or tips? Anything we should know going into it? I know some places make kits, what's the best place to buy the kit?
Any help will be appreciated, Thanks
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Calvin Schmidt
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario Can.
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Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 8:25pm |
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I know the Cummins 855 swap is common. Has anyone swapped in a Cat 3406 or 3306 ?
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Jwmac7060
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Location: Indiana
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Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 8:54pm |
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Hundleys in Austin Indiana used to do the Cummins repowers...I'm not sure if any of them are on the forum...A 4w305 with an 855 Cummins would be an awesome tractor in my opinion...Allis would have been better served to have put Cummins in all of their 4 wheelers
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Kevin in WA
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Location: Lynden, WA
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Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 9:49pm |
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Reliance says they have kits available for the 4w305 engine, talked to them about a month ago. 800 342 2545 They are in Iowa, used to be called Howard Enterprises.
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Unit3
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Location: NC Iowa
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Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 10:28pm |
If you rebuild it, I want you to run it in the shop with the valve covers unbolted so you can lift them and see how much oil is coming up through the rocker arms. There is a BIG difference between oil pressure and oil volume.
Remember the only oil the cam lobs, connecting rods, adjustment screws, and valve guides will ever see is what comes out of the rocker arms themselves. If the push rods are blue, that means heat and not enough oil volume.
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2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C
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Allis14
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Location: Indiana
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Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 6:28am |
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At this point we're defiantly open to both possibilities. Deep down we would like to just rebuild it to keep it original, but the practicality is we are going to be using this tractor for tillage and the 855 would probably be easier on us down the road if any problems arise and need parts. I appreciate the help I'll see if I can't get ahold of the couple of people you guys listed and see what they have!
If anyone personally knows of someone that's done the 855 swap or had one done and could put me in contact with them i would appreciate it. Would like to know all the hurdles before we would head down that road!
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 8:25am |
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Ivan at Summerix implement in Lachine Michigan has brought new life into many 4W 305 s. He could probably lend you some advice. He's on the forum here occasionally. He's put out some mighty fine looking, and functional, orange iron. Darrel
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Allis14
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Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 10:50am |
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Thanks I'll see if I can't get in touch with him and see if he has any advice! I appreciate all the help! Just wanting to get this jewel running for several years to come!
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john(MI)
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Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 11:06am |
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The usual advice. If you swap in an engine, you won't know what you are getting. If you rebuild, you will!
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Jwmac7060
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Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 1:01pm |
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I would rather swap it out for a Cummins and have to rebuild the Cummins than just rebuild the AC motor that parts are getting to be hard to find
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Unit3
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Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 3:48pm |
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IF,,,,, money was no object, the 7 cylinder twin turbo engine in the Gleaner S78 or S88 could spin the tires.
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2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C
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Allis14
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Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 5:15pm |
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Lol the new Gleaner engine may be pretty far fetched! But it would be prettt dang sweet
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ajl
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Location: Alberta
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Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 9:05pm |
Given that you have a 305, I would try to rebuild the Allis to keep it original so that you have an AC 4W305 if at all possible. If the only reason that you bought the tractor was for field work, then getting a Versatile or Steiger with a Cummins already installed in there would be a lot easier.
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Lonn
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Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 6:35am |
 ajl wrote:
Given that you have a 305, I would try to rebuild the Allis to keep it original so that you have an AC 4W305 if at all possible. If the only reason that you bought the tractor was for field work, then getting a Versatile or Steiger with a Cummins already installed in there would be a lot easier. |
My sentiments exactly
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Mike Kroupa
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Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 8:08am |
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If you plan on keeping it for a while and want to keep it AC then I would make the 731 into a 844. Then you would have one tough engine and parts are readily available. You would need a crankshaft and exh. manifold and single turbo setup. The 6138 would live a long time @ 300-350 hp. range and the 4w-305's drivetrain was already designed for the slower engine rpms, so not much performance difference in the slower eng. rpms. The CAT part number for the eng. valve roto-coils is 6N-7154 and are a direct replacement for the AC part number. Good Luck, Mike
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ACjack
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Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 8:54am |
You would need a crankshaft and exh. manifold and single turbo setup.
I believe what you called a 731 is what the Harvey engine plant called the 12 liter. If so you'd also need new pistons. The 12 liter had a different piston in it. If you tear it down check the wrist pin bores in them because the early 12 liter engines had a problem with cracking in that area.
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Allis14
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Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 9:58am |
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We would ideally like to keep the AC engine for the stated reasons. We did buy it because we needed a new tillage tractor but it being an AC also played into the reasoning. We just were originally worried about parts and support. But there seems to be more people out there with knowledge and connections then we originally thought. I appreciate all the help. Hopefully we can get started tearing into it in the next few weeks.
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grinder220
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Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 10:16am |
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What exactly is wrong with the engine?
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hillmonkey
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Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 10:40am |
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Was this the 305 on C/L just north of KC? We need pics and details. HAHA
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Allis14
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Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 11:04am |
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Yes it is the one off CL. To be honest we think it just froze up from setting but aren't a 100% forsure yet. The guys description of it was pretty accurate. Needs paint and a cab kit. But it's all there and the sheet metal is all straight. Took a little gamble on it we know that. But it's still a 305 and it was cheap enough that we don't think we're hurt on it at all.
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grinder220
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Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 11:44am |
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What was the reason for it being parked?
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Allis14
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Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 1:16pm |
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He said he used it last spring and parked it and it wouldn't start this year
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ILGLEANER
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Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 1:40pm |
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Why not put a M11 Cummins in a 8550 or 4w305. I have a 9482 versy that has a M11 in it, that has had a 400hp chip in it for years. It is way more motor than a 731. And parts are real easy to find. Set it at 325hp it would out last the rest of the tractor.
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Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 7:28am |
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Or even better, an L10 so it can be all mechanical, non electronic!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Allis14
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Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 7:44am |
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Defiantly like the idea of non electronic just for the sake of simple!
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CrestonM
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Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 7:58am |
Lonn wrote:
ajl wrote:
Given that you have a 305, I would try to rebuild the Allis to keep it original so that you have an AC 4W305 if at all possible. If the only reason that you bought the tractor was for field work, then getting a Versatile or Steiger with a Cummins already installed in there would be a lot easier. |
My sentiments exactly
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tractormanpj
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Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 8:04am |
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I like the idea of the non electrical cummins motor. We have 2 Versatile mfwd tractors with cummins but they are electronic but still pretty good and we have a white gmc semi with a cummins mechanical. Our sparyer has a cummins and that has some power. They good motors but I still like hearing my 7060 motor running!
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WD 180 190XT 7045 Gleaner S98
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 10:02am |
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We needed cylinder Kits for Our Case IH 9270 last year. it has the big Cam 855. its an awsom engine untill you need Cylinder kits for it they dont exist. We sorced the kits out of a place in kentucy they were the last ones avaliable last year Cummins is not making them any more. This is just what I was told last spring whenn searching for parts to get our planting tractor back in t he field. before I went to the effort to put one in Id deffantly check on parts avalibilty.
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Amos
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Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 11:40am |
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Dakota, not sure where you got that information from as I am on the second one of those engine in frames right now where i work and there was no mention of a problem to get overhaul kits for them.
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ivan
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Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 10:07am |
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call me I will help you 989-379-2721
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