427435?

So, if you don't mind me asking- I've heard that there were others that were looking at buying A-C (Other than Deutz or IH)- is that true?

Also, I've heard that there was a lot of tension between Oliver and Minneapolis-Moline when White started parts sharing. I'm assuming that this is why they just stopped both brands, and started making Whites... Is that true?

matador wrote: So, if you don't mind me asking- I've heard that there were others that were looking at buying A-C (Other than Deutz or IH)- is that true? Also, I've heard that there was a lot of tension between Oliver and Minneapolis-Moline when White started parts sharing. I'm assuming that this is why they just stopped both brands, and started making Whites... Is that true?

It didn't take an Einstein to figure out that White Motor would eventually merge Oliver, MM, and Cockshutt into one operation------------so I suspect there was a lot of in-fighting amongst the dealers and sales reps trying to position themselves to be a survivor.

There was some reluctance when the Charles City/Oliver engineering group was moved to Hopkins but, once in the Twin Cities for a bit, few wanted to move back to Charles City.  However, once the engineering depts were combined, I suspect everyone knew the final shoe would be dropping soon.

What most people weren't aware of was that White Motor had an advanced projects group in Torrance, CA that was working on state-of-the-art engines for both trucks and ag equipment as well as drivetrains for farm tractors.  We built a few prototypes in Hopkins, but the programs were killed when times got tough for both trucks and ag equipment in the 70's.

So instead of merging operations with brand-new tractors, the 4-150 became the first of the White Farm tractors with new styling (done by Larry Shinoda, the guy that styled the Corvette Sting Ray and the Boss Mustang among other things) and the rest is history.

 

matador wrote: We have a very early 2-105. The dealer nameplate on the side shows an Oliver logo. I don't know how to read WFE serial numbers- the cab has a serial number above the back window, but I don't know if that's for the cab or the entire tractor... It's easy to tell that there is a lot of Oliver blood there, but did MM contribute anything? From what I can see, our 2-105 seems like an Oliver with different sheetmetal. So, White was looking into building their own engines? I've never heard about that. Another question if you know- who did the White cabs? I absolutely love the design on them. Thanks for the knowledge!

The dealer probably had a bunch of old decals with the Oliver logo that he was using up.  He maybe was also just staying "loyal" to Oliver and resisting buying decals with White Farm on them.

Yes, the 2-105 was basically an Oliver tractor with new sheet metal and cab.

I'm not sure who made the cabs.  It could have been Crenlo in Rochester, but I don't know.  I remember the name of the company that made the AC 8000 cab--------it was McLaughlin Body Co. in Moline, Illinois.  They could have built the White cabs as well.  The cabs on the 4-150 were made by Crenlo.

I know a guy who worked on the assembly line in Charles City the day they started building White tractors. The factory employees threw a fit and would not assemble a tractor unless it was green and said Oliver on the hood. Management finally said assemble the tractors or get another job, so they went back to work. There is remains of one of those state of the art tractors at the Floyd County museum and an engine as well. The engine had an injection pump driven off the back of the engine and the tractor had a different 3 speed transmission. They were also testing a CVT. I do have pictures of the prototype Oliver if anyone would want to see them.

On the AC side of things I remember the one gentleman who spoke at the GOTO in Union Grove mentioned how he was scouting companies to buy the Ag division. There were talks with John Deere but they were not doing too well either. He also spoke with a friend at Fiat who owned Hesston at the time. He asked if they would be interested. That person said Fiat's history with AG business in America was never a real profit business and they had no interest in expanding it at the time. Funny how things change!

I didn't know McLaughlin made the 8000-Series cabs. I know that they made the cab on our Deere 6600 combine. It seems like a nice cab... The White cab seems to be a really nice, tight unit, though.

I don't know much about the dealer- this was all I could find: http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=oliver&th=94869

I assume that it's an early 2-105- the cab serial number is in the 800s. I'll have to figure out if that's the number of the cab, or the tractor.

Photos from the Floyd County Museum would be great! When I get to IA sometime, I'll have to stop in.

Thanks for spreading the wealth of knowledge!

That Oliver prototype looks like 70 series case

Was the 8000 chassis designed with the possibility of using a different engine or would that have been changed as needed?

That does look a lot like a Case 970! That has to be a neat machine to see- it would be really neat to see the whole thing, but I'm amazed that they have that much of it. The more I look at that drawing, the more I see Case.

I know Shameless may kill me for saying this, but I think the production Whites (Like the 2-105) look a fair amount like the shape of a John Deere 30 Series (Such as the 4230). The Whites were definitely a beautiful tractor for the time. I think the Allis 8000 series has them beat in the looks department, but that was still a few years off..

matador wrote: That does look a lot like a Case 970! That has to be a neat machine to see- it would be really neat to see the whole thing, but I'm amazed that they have that much of it. The more I look at that drawing, the more I see Case. I know Shameless may kill me for saying this, but I think the production Whites (Like the 2-105) look a fair amount like the shape of a John Deere 30 Series (Such as the 4230). The Whites were definitely a beautiful tractor for the time. I think the Allis 8000 series has them beat in the looks department, but that was still a few years off..

It was actually similar to the MM 1050 tractor styling.

jorstad brothers wrote: on the 8000 cabs why are the hyd levers behind the center of the seat? the 7000s are centered. which i thought was much better. thanks

I suspect the levers were moved back to make room for the second door. They should have been moved up slightly and further to the right instead. Or at least further right and not back at all. Actually they should have gone right to electro-hydraulics like they were using in the combines.

Edited by Lonn - 11 May 2015 at 11:00am

I wonder if an ex Case stylist worked of the new model?

JohnCO wrote: I wonder if an ex Case stylist worked of the new model?

I don't know when or who did the rendering.  However, when Bunkie Knutson became CEO of White Motor (after being fired from Ford), he brought along a well know stylist, Larry Shinoda.  He was quite a character and fun to work with. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Shinoda

Does anyone remember the hood ornament that was on the front of the first White Farm tractors?  It was a take-off of the Lincoln hood ornament and Larry meant it to be a middle figure salute to Ford. 



The cab in the rendering is really pretty generic.  Most of the cabs in that era looked much the same if sitting by themselves and painted black---------once the firewall was moved forward for ease of entry and the windshield sloped back for style.  The obvious exception was the round front Deere (about as hard to get into as the 7000 Series cabs), but they couldn't move their firewall forward because of their screwy "mid" engine location.

That's a neat picture looks sharp

Dont know. Seen it on Facebook. Love to have the book.

The Deere cab was just as dumb to get into as the 7000 series cab. Then look at that center post all day long. I always told my Deere buddies that is why they planted crooked, they couldn't see out.
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