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lussetto 
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Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Bridgeport, NE
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 Topic: 426 Crankshaft options
Posted: 09 Feb 2016 at 9:22pm |
Need to replace crankshaft and rods on a customer's D21 pulling tractor. It pulls in an 8000#, open rpm, 3x3 turbo class. Is the West German crankshaft necessary or worth the extra money in this situation? Budget is a big concern in this case.
Thanks Greg
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Feb 2016 at 9:59pm |
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I can't imagine anyone ever regretting using the counter-balanced 426 crankshaft, especially at open RPM's.....only possible regret is cost.
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lussetto
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Posted: 09 Feb 2016 at 10:07pm |
What are the differences in the two cranks? I know it's partially counterweighted, but are they made out of different materials? Didn't they have a lot of trouble with the late 426's? Curious to learn more on the orange.
Thanks Greg
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Feb 2016 at 7:25am |
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The two? cranks?? There are at least two counter-balanced cranks from 1975 until 1985, and maybe three of the non-counterweighted ones. The very latest cranks had a 4 inch long bolt retaining the crank pulley, and also a roll pin instead of a half-moon key for the pulley location. I think these cranks did say West Germany on them. Older cranks had more actual counter-weights on them if I remember right. I'd guess the West German metallurgy is probably better iron than whomever did the older cranks.
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lussetto
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Posted: 10 Feb 2016 at 9:48am |
I had no idea they made that many cranks and have had very little experience with the 426 engine. I am trying to get this D21 back together as good as I can with on a tight budget. At the last pull it was put in 5th gear instead of 7th and it ended wrecking 4 out of the 6 rod bearings. We are thinking it might have emptied the oil pan with such a long run, but if you have any ideas I would appreciate your advice.
Greg
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Feb 2016 at 11:36am |
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Interesting. How big of turbo.....how much fuel delivery.....RPM's?? and how heavy of motor oil.....they don't wipe out rod bearings that easily. Still have the old D-21 camshaft driven oil pump? or newer crankshaft driven like a late 210/220 ??
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 10 Feb 2016 at 12:37pm |
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I thought the long bolt ones were french.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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NEVER green
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Posted: 10 Feb 2016 at 1:20pm |
Hi Ed, we put a used long bolter in our 8050, it was West German. I heard the long bolt came about because of Uni hydros, they attached large hydraulic pumps to front of motor and some times had crank failure at the front. If it were my tractor for sure, the counterweighted cranks had thicker crank pin fillet, a critical strength stress area.
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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lussetto
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Posted: 10 Feb 2016 at 2:29pm |
GT42 ball bearing turbo with Hart's intake wheel and cover, Hart's exhaust upgrades. 13MM P pump was set around 700cc, was turned down one turn. Doesn't turn much for RPM, hasn't had much port work done on the head (head is heading to SD this week). I will guess it spent most of its time 3000-3500. In the lower gear, maybe 4500 when it hurt the motor. Has the crank driven oil pump, also has Simpson's filter relocate kit and pressure relief spring. Generally runs 75-80 psi cold. Running Brad-Penn 20W50 oil.
The tractor has ran decent for what it is and has been very reliable (2 seasons). I just want to make sure we get these problems handled as we should be taking a good step in performance. The cylinder head will be getting filled and ported, much better 5 hole injectors, and a different camshaft from Vogel. Hopefully we can get a lot closer to red tractors this summer.
Thanks Greg
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Feb 2016 at 8:23pm |
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The fillet radius on all the 426 crankshafts was fattened up in about 1975/76 when the 7080's came out. True, the counter-balanced crank got the wider fillets, which meant the main bearing shells got narrower (and also got tri-metal bearing material), but the non-counterbalanced cranks got the same fillet fattening treatment at about the same time too. The Uni-Harvester thing I've never heard of, but the Uni's never had the counterbalanced crank anyway. The change in design to the crankshaft nose occurred to both crank styles, not just one.
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NEVER green
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Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 8:03am |
 DrAllis wrote:
The fillet radius on all the 426 crankshafts was fattened up in about 1975/76 when the 7080's came out. True, the counter-balanced crank got the wider fillets, which meant the main bearing shells got narrower (and also got tri-metal bearing material), but the non-counterbalanced cranks got the same fillet fattening treatment at about the same time too. The Uni-Harvester thing I've never heard of, but the Uni's never had the counterbalanced crank anyway. The change in design to the crankshaft nose occurred to both crank styles, not just one. |
Actually Dr we own a Uni 803A, all 803A's came with counter balanced cranks and the good rods, funny thing ours has the big short bolt. After 803a everything painted gray and Allis engines gone.
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 4:52pm |
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709's were the ones I'm used to and were 175 HP and did not have a counterbalanced crank. What was your 803 rated at?? I thought by then they were all Cummins engines. The long bolt thing came along after 1982? if I remember right....maybe even 1983.
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NEVER green
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Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 5:16pm |
If I remember right 220, i would have to double check manual. Have a question, did the last long bolts come cold rolled??? My theory on the cold rolling is it built up stress on the journals and when ground the fillets had to be shot peened to relieve the stress. I believe nitriding would have been better.
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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MACK
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Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 9:54pm |
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I have some used big pin rods for sale if you need them. MACK
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