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7060 
Orange Level
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Missouri
Points: 1155
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 Posted: 12 Jul 2016 at 10:07pm |
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I know it wouldn't have been likely for Allis to use a cat engine since they were competitors at the time, but I would much prefer a cat over a cummins any day. I'm a little bit of a hater on cummins, but I've never had much luck with them. Cats start way better and the low end torque and lugging recovery would have been a nice substitute for the 3750 series engines.
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427435
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Location: SE Minnesota
Points: 18637
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Posted: 12 Jul 2016 at 10:51pm |
 Lonn wrote:
I can't figure out why AC ever let Harvey plant be so independent of the main company. Who owned who for sake's alive! They should have combined the operations.
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There was a lot of bickering by the general managers of the two plants (their bonus money depended on many of the decisions). In the early 80's, they were made to switch places. 
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Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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427435
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Location: SE Minnesota
Points: 18637
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Posted: 12 Jul 2016 at 10:57pm |
ACjack wrote:
Curse Harvey for the $$$$ it would have taken to make the 426 available
I think the Harvey plant would have been more than happy to sell more 3500 series engines and that the issue was with West Allis. |
West Allis basically paid so much per hp regardless of engine displacement. For needed production volume of the 301, a second model beyond the 7000 was wanted by Harvey. I also suspect the 649TI engine was cheaper to build than the 670T engine.
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Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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427435
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Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Location: SE Minnesota
Points: 18637
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Posted: 12 Jul 2016 at 11:02pm |
ACjack wrote:
I don't think it was a question of who owned who. While I worked there West Allis was who called all the shots and getting capital from West Allis to make improvements was for all practical purposes was impossible. The improvements whether for engine updates, facilities or production machines/processes just didn't happen like it should have or needed. |
If by West Allis, you meant the corporate types on the West side of 70th st, then you would be right--------------that's where those decisions got made. However, the West Allis Tractor Plant had little to do with that.
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Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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427435
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Location: SE Minnesota
Points: 18637
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Posted: 12 Jul 2016 at 11:08pm |
Jwmac7060 wrote:
Should have out sourced the motors in the 7080,7580 8070,4w220 4w305 and the 8550 to Cummins....Allis might still be around had those come with bigger motors |
Not really. The corporation was losing money in areas outside of farm equipment and had big bank loans to pay. The farm equipment was the one entity that they could sell for a good price and pay some of those loans off. Actually, the banks were likely the ones that forced the sale to Deutz. But yes, a modern engine of around 500-550 cu. in. was needed to keep up in the hp race.
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Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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ACjack
Silver Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2014
Location: Peoria, Arizona
Points: 277
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Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 9:07am |
427435 wrote:
ACjack wrote:
Curse Harvey for the $$$$ it would have taken to make the 426 available
I think the Harvey plant would have been more than happy to sell more 3500 series engines and that the issue was with West Allis. |
West Allis basically paid so much per hp regardless of engine displacement. For needed production volume of the 301, a second model beyond the 7000 was wanted by Harvey. I also suspect the 649TI engine was cheaper to build than the 670T engine.
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The 301 (D2900 series) was "high" volume for the Harvey engine plant. During my years there production would vary from 30 or so on up to 60 per day. That engine was also sold to commercial customers. I do believe you're right about the 649TI was cheaper to produce vs the 670T.
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ACjack
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Joined: 13 Sep 2014
Location: Peoria, Arizona
Points: 277
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Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 9:10am |
427435 wrote:
ACjack wrote:
I don't think it was a question of who owned who. While I worked there West Allis was who called all the shots and getting capital from West Allis to make improvements was for all practical purposes was impossible. The improvements whether for engine updates, facilities or production machines/processes just didn't happen like it should have or needed. |
If by West Allis, you meant the corporate types on the West side of 70th st, then you would be right--------------that's where those decisions got made. However, the West Allis Tractor Plant had little to do with that.
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Yes, I was referring to corporate and not the tractor plant.
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Calvin Schmidt
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario Can.
Points: 4583
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Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 10:22am |
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JD is not perfect by any means. I just rebuilt an 8.1L in a 7820 tractor because of a piston failure that may have started by a faulty injector. The piston started to come apart above the top ring. The tractor has more than 10,000 hrs but the other five holes showed very little wear. The 8.1L has 1/4" of material above the top ring to aid in better starting an lower emisions. My D-21 has 3/4" above the top ring. I'm told that the current JD engines are using a two peice piston.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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