210 engine rebuild vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFM0txXtht8

Edited by Ron(AB) - 26 Feb 2023 at 11:27pm

We use Murphy's Oil Soap in the tub for liner orings here at the shop and have never had a problem. Exception is the top filler bad on a 3406 CAT liner, that gets engine oil as the oil causes it to swell and seal. I too noticed the front plate going on dry I wondered about it. 

I do my own overhauls of course, but I would let him do my machine work in a heartbeat.

It took them a few years, but they finally changed the 2nd ring material to help with that problem.

That's too bad!   Pull it apart a 2nd time...

Dr below the video is a paragraph and at the end says show more. Click that and it drops down some info. Website an email.

So many wrong answers in the comments on the page! Wow! I'm with Dr on this, but also who did the injection work? Seems sketchy at best if they cannot even put timing mark on correct side! The guy commenting about how 24 seems too high doesn't know his @$$ from a hole in the ground about pumps, deere & ih are timed at end of injection so it can be timed at or near tdc. It is simply where the mark in the pump is placed. The AC pumps are marked for beginning of injection, the pump advance is 6*, so 12 crankshaft degrees. So at higher speeds when at full advance we have the 12 plus 24, for 36* total degrees. Most engines will be timed between 28 and 38*. These pumps can be air timed, which a good rebuilder does to verify it is assembled correctly. Apply air pressure to the #1 outlet, turn pump shaft normal direction (cw from front) and it will "lock up" when it is beginning to inject. At that point the lines should align with each other. I've had the pleasure of fixing other shop's poorly rebuilt pumps that do cause premature failures, due to being marked wrong. Sadly the parts often get blamed. 

Brandon, 40* is strictly for a pulling Roosa pump with the timing advance locked out. I'd be happy to find a 1000$ one lmao! I do think it's funny he is taking it back to the shop that did it to begin with, they will surely not "find" anything wrong lol! Coers Olivers had a similar issue with a rebuild. It was pump timing mark issue. It didn't look like that chisel pulled hard enough to overload it. Makes me wonder if the engine didn't need rebuilt to begin with. They had the pump rebuilt, then started using it, and it then ended up with a ton of blowby, kinda like this time. I'd say there's a connection here. I don't remember if it was scored cylinders in the original sleeves. I bet it was!

Hopefully they will except the advice. 

Done a little research tonite on piston skirt to sleeve clearance and will relay the information. From the D-21 service manual: .0065" to .009"  (these are numbers I like) from the 210/220  7030/7080 and 8030/8070 service manuals  .0025" to .005"  !!!   NO WAY !!  The 210/220 and 7030 engines have no piston cooling and there is no way that .0025" will ever work (and doesn't work) and even .005" is too tight to suit me. I always like .007" or more on any pulling engine I threw together for trouble free operation.  So, I also looked at a 6080 engine and a 7010-7020 engine and even they are at .004" to .007" on a much smaller diameter piston. Makes the D-21 numbers look very correct comparing a 4.25" piston to a 3.875" piston !!   301 puller engines with no coolant around the sleeves we shoot for .015" minimum.

I'd like .009" better than .005" (on a 426 with no piston cooling) and there is no way .0025" would ever work. I agree, someones calculator had a key there was coffee spilled on making it stick. Kind of the same thing when you look up compression ratio numbers for a 200-7000-7010-7020. Always in the advertising literature it was 16 to 1, when in reality it was 15 to 1. Anyway, what I see, this 220 engine failed from tight piston skirts. They responded to my e-mail and realize the orange O ring was in the top groove, which according to Allis is wrong. Reliance told them to install orange on top and black on the bottom, which is wrong. There will always be those who "have never had any trouble with the o-ring lube they've always used". I'm telling you from experience, too much lube or the wrong lube squeezes those sleeves tightly and can cause exactly what this 220 engine failed from !! You don't have to believe it. Just have it happen ONCE and you'll change your thinking !! There is also the possibility that the aluminum piston material Reliance (or anyone else of today) is using has a slightly different expansion rate than the material A-C used 40+ years ago. Which kind of negates original piston skirt specs, whichever spec numbers are correct. Looser (up to a point) is better.

Edited by DrAllis - 21 Feb 2023 at 6:30pm

I wonder if the conflicting specs above are one section for new parts, and another section is re-use guidelines? I'm surprised they aren't on this page. This is THE page to be on if you are an AC person!

Just out of curiousity, does AGCO offer parts/a rebuild kit for this engine?  That's what I would be looking for if it were mine.  Seems to me that you can discuss proper clearances, correct liner packing positions, and the right liner packing lube all you want but it's all irrelevant unless the aftermarket pistons, liners and packings are exact copies and therefore perform exactly like OEM parts.  OEM and aftermarket pistons may have the same clearance when cold but not at operating temperature.  What about the change in ring material to prevent the typical second ring breakage?  Did the aftermarket pick up on that and change theirs too? 

Edited by jeickman01 - 21 Feb 2023 at 5:30pm

Thanks Doc!